Sagginess.............................I won't make a reference about women on this one..... :nono:

 

/\if women are saggy, they were prolly nice when younger. You see, no nice when young=no sag when old

and/or- x niceness when young (well there's a point where it gets to be too much)=x sag when old

it's a tradeoff I guess. Too young to really know if my above formula is correct or not.

 

okay. basically i'm trying to decide if i need new springs. but.... i WANT to lower my front end!!!! so WHY BOTHER buying new springs if i can just cut my existing ones? there's gotta be more to it than sag, or is there....

 

When they start hitting the stops on the lower control arm usually. That and sag. Even new shocks won't improve the ride.

 

i know shocks wont stop your car from bouncing when you push on it, but is there a test like that for springs? and what do you look for? (72 camaro)

The service manual will provide a ride height specification. I don't recall on the Camaro but generally you take a measurement from the bottom of the spindle to the ground, record it, take a measurement from the lower control arm bushing center, record it the determine the difference between the two recorded measurements. Compare this to the specification to see if you have saggy springs. I wouldn't suggest cutting springs.

 

my hgt from center of wheel (spindle) to fender lip is 14.75 and 15" is spozed to be exact stock hgt for a second gen 'maro. so it's sagging 1/4 inch which is no big deal other than the springs are 32 yrs old and the front end is comin apart anyway, AND i want to lower the front an inch. that means cut a half a coil out. i dont see what the big deal would be, so many other people have cut them. i would use a saw and not a torch. but i have also heard of putting a torch on them and just melting the spring till the car comes to rest on a jack stand, i suppose, to stop it at the desired hgt. now THAT doesn't exactly sound too kosher, but i dont see what would be wrong with cuting it with a cut off tool or a sawzall, (other than going thru blades!) i think for the cheap price of $70/pair for moog springs, a seller could tell me one that would drop my car and inch or 1.5".

question, if i cut it, what does that to do the spring rate (#'s/inch?)

Q-2, if i have stock 14" tires on now and i'm going to a 225x15", is tire hgt different?

ps, the car in question is my avatar, click on the upper right "photo album" and you can see/judge how much i should lower it

 

1st off shocks do stop a car from bouncing, springs are compressed by weight transfer and try to extend to return the car to ride height. with no shock the car will bounce forever. Sorry, you probably knew that and just had a typo in your first post.

If you can corner and feel your front end load up nice and even your springs are probably still good enough to fool around with. If the car rolls hard or bottoms out your springs are probably done anway.

The best thing to do is to cut out a coil (I'm not sure what the rule is for coils to inches) with a chop saw or cutting wheel but keep cooling it while you cut. This will lower the front end but shouldn't drastically affect your spring rate so the ride won't change much. If you use a torch to sag your springs you are changing the characteristics of the metal and while you will be able to set your ride height quite easily your aged spring won't work as well in the end. You will probably bottom out quite easily and the car won't rebound with any authority.

If you don't get the desired effect either way you can get springs for the camaro suspension that will give you 1-2 inch drops. Check the suspension companies, with the amount of people throwing that subframe under hotrods you can get anything you need. If you want to go 2" or more you will definately need to go to a dropped spindle as your camber gets all out of shape. You will want to check this even with a 1" drop. You may want to shim your control arm after. As for your tire you will have to get manuacturers specs to see the overall diameter of the tires you have and the ones you want. Even 2 identical tires (185/75/14) from different manufacturers can have a different diameter. Most man. have all the dimensions on their websites or in their catalogs.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/89858/
http://www.brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1999OCT/50007837.shtml

 

Q-2, if i have stock 14" tires on now and i'm going to a 225x15", is tire hgt different?

Tire diameter for a 225-60 X 15 is: 225 times 60 divided by 2540 which gives you your sidewall height. Multiply that by 2 and add the wheel diameter. That will give you your tire height with no load on it. A 225-60X15 is close to a 225-70 or 75 X 14 in OD.

ps, the car in question is my avatar, click on the upper right "photo album" and you can see/judge how much i should lower it

Based on the pictures your Camaro does NOT sag in fact it appears that it might have big block springs in it. Being a throwback to the 70's I'd probably leave it where it is put some little skinny 15 X 4 wheels up front and a set of 15 X 10's out back with 295-50's on it. Then again I'd be real tempted to drop it about 3" at both ends and put some 17 or 18" wheels on it with 245-40's up front and 275 or 295's out back. But that's me.

 

yeah, hard to pick a style, but since my tempest has 17's and 255's i'll go with the smaller front bigger back. i'd like to just cut the springs, but they are 33 years old so, i dunno. they are only $70/pr . my car isn't as high in front as alot of them, seems to be level. still might just get new ones anyway, but now i dont think i NEED them


thanks you guys, i got the answer i was looking for. :thumbup:

 

You are worrying about nothing. Springs always take a set and lower a little in service. As long as they don't bottom out your suspension or sag more on one side than the other, they are fine. They don't lose their spring rate which is the important parameter in suspension function. I have heard of leaf springs breaking (E-ticket ride if you are in the car when it snaps!) but I have never heard of a coil blowing. Probably happens but is rare. I prefer junk yard MII coils over brand new ones on all my suspension swaps 'cause I know for sure they are exactly where they will be forever. No more settling will occur so I can set ride height and it won't change.

Use a torch to cut off half a coil at a time to set your new ride height. Sure, a torch will cause heat damage to the spring metal but the damage will be confined to within 1/4" of the cut which won't bother the spring function in the slightest. A real hassle to take out the spring several times but better to do the deed in small steps than in one too big step. The advantage of doing it with seasoned springs is that they will stay where you put them.

 

My father had a Ford Sierra and that had both coil springs break on the front,
luckily not at the same time and it was´nt severe enough to cause any handling problems.

 

I have seen a number of GM coil springs that have broken about 1 coil from the bottom.........sure that yours hasn't?

 

hmmm. i really havent noticed any big handling problems other than the disintegration of my control arm bushings, which makes noise. i know i could keep the stock springs and shocks too for that matter, but they look like hell under there and i think new units will help me sell it. i am dumping the shocks as well as replacing the c.a. bushings so i might as well do something with the springs. they are covered with crap. it's almost easier to buy new ones $60/pr) than to waste time scraping oil and crap off and then painting them. i got advised to put a 350lb spring on my camaro. does that sound good to anyone. i know several (web friends) who are using a 425lb spring (moog 5610), but i think they drive harder than me. stock rate for my car is only 300lbs.

 

How's a hacksaws lifespan cutting the coils, does it die pretty fast or have somewhat of a fighting chance against these? A blade per coil or somethin?

 

Boing

Poncho 62 was right with the coil springs on GMs, they will rust at the bottom when theres mud and stuff in the seat. NEVER heat your springs to lower them as you will cause them to lose their proper temper and will just usually bunch up a couple of the coils; then when you least expect it they can jump out of their seats and jam causing one control arm to lift up and thats something you really dont want to have happen to you as one of my students did exactly that when I was teaching back in the nineties.
Talk to the manufacturer of replacement springs and you will find that altering the rate by a few pounds wont matter but if you change the rate of the front pair too much without the rear also being altered to compensate you will end up with a plow understeer situation where in an emergency your front end will slide straight ahead instead of steering. So if I was in your shoes I would swap both front and rear for reset or new springs, a liitle lower in height and a few pounds more rate will get you walking around a stocker. Dont go mad on your shocks either a premium gas high performance STREET shock will do wonders, and finally yes renew all your bushes with urethane and youll feel like you are driving a different car,

Cheers from Aus

Rob

 

Dont cut your springs, its very dangerous and will be bad for shocks

 

i think there is a right way and a wrong way. personally, if 36 says it can be done i would do it in a heartbeat. nice coronet btw!

 

Have torched off a coil or two on many, many, many springs and they all did great! Do it in moderation and you will have zero problems and a great stance.