Saginaw are jello, it'll come apart real fast if not built really well.


bonuts

 

From what I gather, the saginaw T-10 is just the cast iron version of the "rock crusher".

 

Muncies have an aluminium case and are quite a bit lighter than a saginaw, but, there is nothing wrong with a saginaw that is in good condition.

 

Originally posted by drgnwgn289:
<strong>Muncies have an aluminium case and are quite a bit lighter than a saginaw, but, there is nothing wrong with a saginaw that is in good condition.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed.

chris

 

Thanks for the back up Chris, we may just convince the world that saginaws are good trannys

Jake

 

Thanks Guys, I know the saganaws are a lot cheaper than a muncie, but I want somthing that will hold up. That 402's gonna have some power. I still don't know if I want to go with a saganaw, My wallet says yes but I want to be sure it can handle it. I don't want to buy a saganaw just to rip it out and have to buy a muncie anyway.

 

Originally posted by BstMech:
<strong>From what I gather, the saginaw T-10 is just the cast iron version of the "rock crusher". </strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you sure you are talking about a Saginaw? The T-10 is a completely different transmission, originally produced by Borg-Warner and now manufactured and marketed by Richmond Gear. T-10 is somewhat similar to a Muncie, but there are important differences. My vote would be to go with the Muncie! Good transmission, easy to work on and the parts are easy to find.

 

I wouldn't bother trying to save the money, the little difference there is in price you will make up for in reliability of the muncie, the two I ahd with some power behind 'em blow up.

bonuts

 

General Motors put the Muncie in big block 67 Impalas.

The Muncie is considered a stronger transmission by most knowledgeable people ....hence the higher price.

There are more than 1 version of the Muncie. I would try to get one with the 2.54 first gear because the 67 has to be heavy as *ell.

 

The T 10s are ok as with the muncies,Thay all break and need serviced depending on how hard you run them!, I can not say that the T 10 is as tuff as the rockcrusher, but i have beat the hell out of one in a 64 XL never broke it,but it was wore out when i sold the car.

 

I had two Saginaws, both of them in a 66 327 Malibu, and disintegrated both of them, before going to a muncie. The muncie is a tougher transmission in my book, but will grenade under the proper conditions. Look for an M-22 "rock crusher" it has straighter cut gears, and fine spline shaft, and is more durable than m-21s or m-22s.
Borg Warner T10s are very tough, had one in a 76 455 Trans Am, and never did rip it up.

 

I agree NAIRB, short of using a M22,(a used M22 in good cond. $850 +) I would try a Super T10 from the mid 70's! These trannys performed very well behind some pretty torquey big blocks!

 

I have just sold my Muncie M-21 close ratio for a ungodly amount of money and am looking for a much cheaper and stronger Borg Warner SUPER T-10. Why? Because the Super T-10 is extreemly strong (my buddy runs 10.2 sec et's in the quarter with one damn torquey 427 and slicks) the Super also has much more even ratio's and a much better first gear ratio. The Muncie is popular at the track because it has the closest gear ratio's in the world hence less rpm drop between shifts but in order to get these close ratio's they have to start with a 2.20 first ratio wich is very doggy off the line unless you run at least 4.56 gears in the rear. My Muncie Chevelle had 4.56's but in town it was a pain to drive because the ratio's were so close, I would usually just shift 2nd to 4th when I was cruzing! Make sure it is a Super the older regular T-10's are week go to 4speeds.com for more info and history! Zach

[ January 24, 2003: Message edited by: zachscc ]</p>

 

I'm going to ask some of you to give me a little advise also as I have been all over the net trying to decide about the transmission for my 62 Impala. I purchased a used saginaw four speed from a local who said it was of course perfect.......
Needless to say I got the shaft. So I'm trying to better my knowledge on tranny's for my car. I changed it over from a 6 cyl. to a 350 with a four speed on the floor and now believe I should buy a muncie or a T-10 Borg Warner. I want it strong and durable. I also am not certain about ratios. I want this to be a lowered mean little car as my 67 is a sweetheart and cruiser. I kind of have a Impala thing. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

FYI, if you have any power, foget the sag, go with a muncy m22, they have a little more spaceing in the gear ratio's and they last forever, i'm a road racer, where torque is the answer, the M21 fits my needs perfect

 

I got a T-10 in my camaro.It has work very well.Not a problem with it.I think they are good to about 500hp or maybe alittle high yet.If its in good shape I would go for it.But hey muncies are good to.I quess it depends what kinda power ya going to be running

 

Roadrunner' The Saganaw is deffinatly not the answer if you are making any power at all. In my 66 Chevell an M20 would not handel 400 H.P. I went to a M22 & had no problems but an M22 is noisy & tends to vibrate a little because of the cut of the gears.Also a fore sure M22 is worth about 2 grand.When I went to 700 H.P. I also chagged to T10 built by Tex Racing' It was a little less than 2 grand & is very smooth. Hope this helps' good luck.

 

Thanks Slo Bill I'm still looking, I'm thinking about buying somthing form Summit or Jegs. But That will be a while.

 

Well as to the question as to which transmission is strongerI've run both Muncies and Saginaws in my 71 GTO. If your worried about whether a Saginaw can handle torque I say yes. I have run Saginaws in my goat for years now and have had better luck than I ever had with Muncies and quicker times. The thing to look for with Saginaws in to check and see how many rings are one the input shaft. The ones with no rings are what was orginally used in Vegas and are real weak, the ones with 2 rings (which I'm using right now)has better gears but is a V6 application and the 3 ring isthe strongest. One reason I prefer the Saginaw is the gear ratios. The Saginaws have a 2.89:1 first gear and a 2.52:1 second, which makes for an incredible launch. As to there strength I've used them behind 400 and 455 Pontiac engines and have launched as high as 5grand with more rear end failures than transmission failures. The thing with Saginaws is to pull the side covers and check the input shaft and the cluster gears (the weak points in a Saginaw) and check the input shaft bearing for excessive play. This comes from 16+ years of drivng and racing my goat and if you decide on the Saginaw be sure to use a good shifter like the Hurst Competion Plus because with the longer throw it is easier on the transmission. The Sagianw that is presently in my GTO I have been using for close to 2 yrs now.but if my pocket could afford it I'd use the Super T-10 or Ford toploader if you plan on using a scattershield. I hope this helps.

 

Originally posted by OddRodder:
<strong>...I would try a Super T10 from the mid 70's! These trannys performed very well behind some pretty torquey big blocks!</strong><hr></blockquote>

question, are the new super T-10's that richmond make as good or worse/better than the T-10's in the mid' 70's?

 

Personally i would go with a muncie. I have never had any problems with the M22 rockcrusher i have in my Buick Regal but it just has a cammed up Chevy 350 in it with a 4.11 posi rear. I have heard good and bad about both but i think you should just go by personal preference.

 

My uncle had a 77 Z28 small block with a Borg Warner Super T10 and 373 gears , it was very impressive for a teenager at the time. So impressive that when I was in my early twenties I had a Borg Warner Super T10 custom installed in my 76 Monte Carlo 350 cubic inch with 350 HP . M22's are called rock crushers, but Borg Warner's are Bullet Proof. Where I come from Borg Warner's are found at the performance shops and Saganaw's are found at the junk yards.One final comment " There's no replacement for Displacement" I found that out when I bought a 71 Plymouth Duster with a 69 440 in it.