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Rack&Pinion on old type straight axle

17K views 53 replies 21 participants last post by  powerrodsmike  
#1 ·
I'm thinking,why can't I mount a R&P unit to my old type Ibeam axle? I would mount it directly to the axle using holes I drill. I realize some sort of splined steering shaft would be needed. This seems an easy way to avoid tie rods,drag links,steering boxes etc. Has anyone out there tried this? This is for a open wheeled street roadster I'm working on.
 
#2 ·
I did this on a B/Gas vega back in the early 70's. I mounted it to a dropped tube axle. The most important thing that you have to do is make sure that the steering shaft has slip tubes supporting it so that the shaft can move up and down when the car accelerates and the front end rises. When I did this I tied it all together and then jacked the frame up in the front and made sure there was no binding. I ran the car for three years that way and the thing handled great and went straight..It was a little strange feeling the steering wheel drop away from you when starting, but two runs and I didn't pay any attention to it any more..If you have any more questions, just ask......GlennK :)
 
#4 ·
Willys36: I don't know if you remember Romeo Palamides, ( He used to build jet cars) but He told a neighbor of mine who had a 33 willys that it couldn't be done when the kid wanted him to set his willys up that way. He told Romeo that He didn't know about that but that I had done it and it was working great. Romeo just walked away.....Not everything is black and white...........Glennk :D
 
#6 ·
There are very few well thought out automotive modifications that can't be done. The problem comes when 'experts' begin to shoot holes in the idea that causes innovations to die. This has been the case throughout history. I have a very interesting book titled "The 5 Equations That Changed History". It covers the life stories of Newton, Einstein, Bernoulli, and a couple of other very creative people. The common thread in every one of the stories is that when they started thinking outside the box, they were vicously attacked for their ideas to the point of financial ruin or even fear of death. In every case the attack came from fathers or mentors who were jealous of the success of their student! As long as you are convinced the idea is safe, try it. As Edison said after being chided for his +3,000 failed attempts at making a light bulb, "They weren't failures. They were successful demonstrations of 3,000 ways not to make a light bulb".
 
#7 ·
Originally posted by austin:
<strong>I'm thinking,why can't I mount a R&P unit to my old type Ibeam axle? I would mount it directly to the axle using holes I drill. I realize some sort of splined steering shaft would be needed. This seems an easy way to avoid tie rods,drag links,steering boxes etc. Has anyone out there tried this? This is for a open wheeled street roadster I'm working on.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Enough of huggy-kissey

This is not that good of a idea.

1) drilling holes in that I beam is No picnic
2) the rack adds to the unsprung weight
3) It is plain out Butt-ugly on a open wheel car
4) there are far better and easier steering systems available..for cheap money.

You could put a Vega box on for less money if you ad up all the u-joints and splines it will take to pull this off.

:D :D If this is SO great.....why do you not see it done ?


:rolleyes:
 
#8 ·
I have actually been considering this on a new Deuce.

The primary reason I would consider it is to get a better feel at the wheel. I personally think the Vega is too high of a ratio...it is like driving a Vega! haha. Nothing really compares to the feel and precision of a rack. A well setup axle and 4 bar handles well, but the steering it far from 'sporty'.

Ken Fenical of Posies has actually produced several cars with this type of setup...most notably his art-deco faux woodie tudor of a few years ago. I would contact Ken about the telescopicing device that he uses. I belive it is now a Posies product.

As for drilling the axle, I have drilled several axles (big 1.5" holes in the web), So a few 1/2" holes should not be too much trouble. If you ran a tube, a pair of perches could be fabricated.

I would also recomend a very short rack, one that is just visible under the edges of the fram rail. Possibly a Fiat rack or similar. You could also run a very short (<18") aftermarket rack designed for race cars. Seems that I have seen these for around $2-300 in race car catalogs that we get at the shop from time to time.

I will cost more than the traditional cross-steer setup, but would definately be different and drive better in my opinion.

Good Luck.
 
#10 · (Edited)
rack on a axle

i have a 34 ford coupe frame, mounting a 460 ford engine(front oil sump) and have amid 70's dodge omni manual rack that i want to mount on the 4" dropped tube axle. I have chev spindles. the rack fits perfectly under it all with no engine interference. welding brackets to the axle wouldnt be a problem. it is not butt ugly as it is all under the engine/frame and to me looks far better than a geabox hangin on the side of the frame. I just need the slip joint section to start the mock up and finish welding..where is this slip joint again? Oh and as for cost effective?..I have been finding and buying parts seperatly here and there so I got a total of $2k into the whole car which includes a 5 window coupe stude body w/ fenders,9"rear axle mounted,huge rear (t bucket style ) tires and mags, 5 spoke front mags and tires, radiator and shell, steering column, fuel tank,etc, etc...this is a low budget project that I believe will not go over $3500.
 
#11 ·
ajbcc2 said:
i have a 34 ford coupe frame, mounting a 460 ford engine(front oil sump) and have amid 70's dodge omni manual rack that i want to mount on the 4" dropped tube axle. I have chev spindles. the rack fits perfectly under it all with no engine interference. welding brackets to the axle wouldnt be a problem. it is not butt ugly as it is all under the engine/frame and to me looks far better than a geabox hangin on the side of the frame. I just need the slip joint section to start the mock up and finish welding..where is this slip joint again? Oh and as for cost effective?..I got a total of $2k into the whole car which includes a 5 window coupe stude body w/ fenders,9"rear axle mounted,huge rear (t bucket style ) tires and mags, 5 spoke front mags and tires, radiator, steering column, fuel tank,etc, etc...this is a low budget project that I believe will not go over $3500.
Nice find there pardner, I am doing an IFS with an I-beam set up on my 34 FPU.
I was always leaning to wards the cantelever action of the newer trucks Ford used in the later part of their suspensions. IDIDIT took the round tube axle and has now done the same thing, but only using half-round axle shafts and an off-set for the alignment. FatMan Fabs took the round axle and sliced it in half and then added the center pivotal link for the stearing. It all works hand in hand. I cannot remember which stearing box used the cable setup, this is your best solution to using the R & P setup on your ride. It would be a grand venture for someone to start manufacturing this type of stearing setup again.
The flex cable would enhence the ability to use almost any combination of stearing control configuration, and all you need to do is attach the flex cable to your setup. Done. I will be cuuting a newer I-beam axle and doing the IFS and a R&P configuration. And it will look real clean and hidden away.
I know this next statement is going to be sacraligious, but anyway, the foriegn market has made it convienent for use to addapt their products onto our American rides. Our large autoindustry has merged with the Japanees in the building of what we drive now on our freeways. So, in turn, I too will use some foriegn engineering on my build. Besides, their R&P units are smaller and just as reliable as any US made item. :thumbup:

So there be it, and it is possible to set the whole mess up and look great.
 
#13 ·
ajbcc2 said:
I just need the slip joint section to start the mock up and finish welding..where is this slip joint again? QUOTE]

Nice 3 year old thread. :D
Here is that slip joint

It is going to mess up your budget though.

later, mikey
 
#15 ·
rack and pinion solid axel

recent story in todays truck mag talks about frtliners rack and pinion steering on solid axel. they say it is lighter and superior controle. they sit reduced maintenance less wht improved engine axcess. cliff
 
#16 ·
I am using a R+P on my tube axle. I have brckets welded to the axle and the R+P mounted to the brackets. I haven't finished the car yet but like some of the others have said you need to have a slip joint and maybe use a vibration eliminator u-joint. I have seen this setup once and talked to the guy and he said it worked great. Hopefully I'll know in 8-9 months. If you would like pictures of my setup email me kaphillips@frontiernet.net and I'll send you a picture.
 
#17 ·
cliff tate said:
recent story in todays truck mag talks about frtliners rack and pinion steering on solid axel. they say it is lighter and superior controle. they sit reduced maintenance less wht improved engine axcess. cliff
Image


I believe the Freightliner setup is frame mounted ( like above ) .... not axle mounted. ;)

If mounting the rack directly to the straight axle is so good ... why does'nt any of the major street rod chassis manufacturers do it ??? I know of no major chassis people doing this.

As for a IFS ... cut straight axle ... :(
You cannot control the camber as well ... because the front spring and the two ends are all over the place IMHO ... and you have to HOPE the guy who welded the ends ... knows what he was doing ...
 
#18 ·
Steering "cable" shaft

The cable steering shaft was used on early Pinto/Bobcat cars prior to 1973 or 1974. You could check at your lcoal Ford dealer and see if they are still available, it is possible they are. The price may be little or it may be alot.
I would not use any cable shaft that isn't new as it is difficult to gauge condition unless they have obvious snapped wires and "fish hooks". If new are not available, you should go with shafting and the slip joint Posey or Borgeson makes.
 
#19 ·
rack and pinion

Deuce said:
Image


I believe the Freightliner setup is frame mounted ( like above ) .... not axle mounted. ;)

If mounting the rack directly to the straight axle is so good ... why does'nt any of the major street rod chassis manufacturers do it ??? I know of no major chassis people doing this.

As for a IFS ... cut straight axle ... :(
You cannot control the camber as well ... because the front spring and the two ends are all over the place IMHO ... and you have to HOPE the guy who welded the ends ... knows what he was doing ...
no the frtliner drawing shows rack mounted on the solid front axel. your picture looks very good but wont you experience bumpsteer with the short rod to therigt spindel,on my cross sreer had to getdrag link paralel to tie rod. cliff
 
#21 ·
bullheadbum said:
I guess I can't post pictures.

Sure you can ... I suggest you start a Hotrodders.com project journal ...
I have one ... look on the right side of this post ... above where the message is posted and you will see mine ...

Once the photos are there ... it is a simple matter to post photos ... like this one from the project journal

Image


Or use the attachments feature ... this is a 32 Ford I went to Mississippi to get about a month ago ...
 

Attachments

#22 ·
rack on a i beam

i put a dodge omni rack on the beam that i had on my 36 chevy. i used a double flat shaft and a sleeve piece from a collapsible column to take up movement.the only problem i had was that i used 69 chevy van spindles and arms and there was enuf difference in their geometrys to kinda screw up the turning radius.other than that it worked out pretty good. now on the other hand, my buddy has been running one on his 33 ford with a tube axle with econoline spindles and arms for what seems like forever with no ill problems whatsoever.i think he is using an opel rack like maybe from a gt or the like. i eventually put vega box on the chevy and after a while all the solid axle stuff made way for a fatman front end which ended up beeing a huge mistake, but thats a whole nutha story. good luck.
 
#25 ·
bullheadbum said:
Hey I now have a project journal and there is a picture of my frontend setup in the journal.

Image


The angle of the steering shaft looks a 'Little extreme " does'nt it ... ?

Image


It is easy to put the photos on your thread now ...

Deuce ...
 
#26 ·
The manual rack looks good on the axle -- but then it's partially hidden (a good thing, I think). You can use a standard GM intermediate shaft -- the collapsible kind. Pull the solid portion out of the tube and remove the "leaf" spring. Now you have a sliding shaft! I'd drill the tube and put a grease zerk on it -- you'll need to keep it lubed. With a universal on each end of the intermediate shaft this should work fine. There will be a little more unspring weight, but I doubt it will be noticeable on a straight axle. A manual rack doesn't weigh much, but I don't think I'd try this with a power rack.

Looks like the angle for the rack shaft is opposite what it should be. you have that thing upside down? Maybe you should look for a right hand drive rack and mount IT upside down!! :thumbup: