Does one particular shop spend more hours blocking than most,...

yes :thumbup:

 

show quality paint

There is a shop my buddy works for here in OK that actually buffs the floorpans! Mind you, they only do a few cars a year and are expensive. It could be that these shops are more concerned with period-correctness than with show quality. I once read of a Corvette restorer who put drips in the valve cover paint to simulate the way G.M. used to paint them on vertical racks. It may have something to do with the way the factory sent the cars out.?

 

This is something that I have brought up before and gotten lamb based over. I am sorry, I have seen the exact same thing. Heck, get down on the ground and look up at the rockers of some of these "show cars" build by "restoration shops", you will see plastic filler or primer with no paint on it! If it isn't seen standing there next to the car, it isn't detailed.

Now, in their defense THAT is how most of these cars are looked at. They are not analyzed like you or I would do, they just aren't. They are really "good enough" if you want to be honest. But don't tell me you do such great work and so much different than a "common" collision shop would, you don't.

REAL detail takes a lot of time. I have seen it, darn tootin, there are shops out there that do it. But they are very few and far between.

I can see what you are saying fiddy two, sure I can accept that a "restored" car is not going to have the "custom" detail as a rod or custom would. But it should have the "detail" none the less. You should be able to see every single spot weld clearly for example. THAT is one thing that makes a "restored car" to me.

Brian

 

Now, in their defense THAT is how most of these cars are looked at. They are not analyzed like you or I would do, they just aren't. They are really "good enough" if you want to be honest.

I do hear what you are saying and I too am amazed at how many people will look at a wavy car and say "boy now that is a straight car", are they looking at the same thing that I am. Many out there really dont have a clue what top notch paint work really is, or should I say dont really care. I myself when doing a full on paintjob will go the extra mile in blocking out till dead flat which is very time consuming and fatiging, but that is just the way I am. I recently have just finished a 67 vette that was an original 38,000 mile car so I started with a really nice piece. Still this thing took me about 700 hours to complete. Is it straight you better beleive it. Perfect fitting door gaps which is unheard of on these cars. A lot of work , yes it is but that is the difference when the car is finished and anyone who really knows what they are looking will see this. It really does come down to how far you want to go and how much time you would want to spend. I personally just cant stand buffing a car unless the body is flawless, after all that is the only thing paint really does is magnify the bodywork.

 

Some times people get confused about the difference between a paint job and a restoration. You can have a nice repaint for $5,000.00 but to restore one would be very expensive. To make a muscle car show quality and perfect is over restoring. They were full of flaws and misalignments when new. To make a car flawless could easily take 500 hrs. 500 x $60.00 per hr =$30,000.00 just in labor.
Bob

 

I see the same thing at the shows I visit. Its rare to see decent quality bodywork anymore. I think part of it is that what's coming out of the auto manufacturers is so pathetic, that all people do is try to make their car look better than a new car, which isn't hard.

When you do see top-notch bodywork, in my experience, its on oddball cars - cars where the owner has a personal interest in making it perfect and maybe has more time than money - and not necessarily on the show winners, most expensive, or most desireable vehicles.

I think another thing is education. I came from a family of gearheads who did their own painting for years. From an early age, I was taught what to look for. If you can't see the flaws, you can't fix them. I think most people just haven't been trained to see what quality work looks like.

Just MHO...

 

in restoration you can not make the car better than factory. a laser straight early vette is destroyed as far as original goes. you must return it to it's original condition. the waves and imperfections must remain. i have had to regelcoat a vette because it had been redone by some custom shop that knew nothing about restorations.

 

I think most people just haven't been trained to see what quality work looks like.


I do beleive you hit the nail right on the head, you are correct if you havent seen the quality of say aloha for example then a run of the mill average paint job in my opinion, now becomes "show quality". Over restoring is a good point to bring up, if one is happy with the defects that a car had when new, then that is fine with me. This corvette for example, the owner knew that these cars were very wavy when new, and wanted it as good as it could possible be, he just could not stand looking at all those ripples and poor panel alignment. On the other hand the guy he bought this car from who has a private collection of ridiculously low milage vettes in original paint, cant see making one this good. So its up to the owners preference and each person has there own definition of "show quality".

 

Is it just me or is there just something un-natural about perfectly flat planes across different panels on a car? Doesn't a natural "bow" occur along the edges when panels are pressed at the factory? I guess that makes a car "perfect" when they build up the edges so there is a perfectly flat trasition between doors, quaters, trunks and hoods. I know it looks nice to have a perfectly flat relfection as the car drives by, but does it loose some of it's "metal" apprearance?

 

in restoration you can not make the car better than factory. a laser straight early vette is destroyed as far as original goes. you must return it to it's original condition. the waves and imperfections must remain. i have had to regelcoat a vette because it had been redone by some custom shop that knew nothing about restorations.

thtas right. there is a corvette resto shop around here and thats all they do is those ncrs cars. i know the painter and he said its such a pia. you will spend all this time and effeort on the car then goto a show and the judges tell you the chrome and paint are too shiney. me personally i just can get into replicating factory crap but thats just because i am not interested in that stuff. being a custom painter i am just used to making everything as flawless as possible. each way you go is an artform in itself. however shoddy work on something thats should be "show quality" is just poor craftsmanship

 

thats right. there is a corvette resto shop around here and thats all they do is those ncrs cars. i know the painter and he said its such a pia. you will spend all this time and effeort on the car then goto a show and the judges tell you the chrome and paint are too shiney. me personally i just can get into replicating factory crap but thats just because i am not interested in that stuff. being a custom painter i am just used to making everything as flawless as possible. each way you go is an artform in itself. however shoddy work on something thats should be "show quality" is just poor craftsmanship

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My favorite saying is a Restoration painter would not last at a Chevy dealer for two weeks and a Chevy painter would never last as a Restoration painter.
It is just two completely different worlds.

A few years ago I had a corvette fuelie that had never been wrecked or repainted, so I redid the whole car, showed it twice to get a few awards for value purposes.
Listed it in Hemmings for top buck. A guy from Ohio flew down who owned three big collision centers, now remember I said the car was a 100 pointer and perfect in my ad!
First thing he does is look down the side and says son, you really need to buy yourself a long block. I didn't even have time to catch my breath and he says you have over spray in the engine compartment.
That is when I caught my breath and said do you know anything about vettes? Yes I have two new ones!

I explained to him that no block touched this car, anywhere all hand Palm sanding and showed him the other overspray under the car.
So after explaining he said you could never work in my bodyshop as he did not believe a word I said and left.

He checked out my story and called the next day and wired the money.

 

Im with Mrcleanr6 on this one, as I too can not get into replicating that factory garbage. If you are going to spend the time and money redoing a car then do it to the best of your ability, give it 110 percent. As for the corvette hardcores all I can say is drop it off at Earl Shieb and they should do an excellent job of duplicating that "factory look".

 

i've seen very few custom shops that could do a restoration . it's more work than you think . in restoration we have guidelines we must follow . i'm doing a 57 restomod corvette right now and the body will never have any value as a restored car. too straight. custom work is easy , you just fix everything.

 

oh yes!! like i said there is an art to both sides. it takes that special kind of person to do each and one usually cant do the other. atleast i couldn't.

 

Im with Mrcleanr6 on this one, as I too can not get into replicating that factory garbage. If you are going to spend the time and money redoing a car then do it to the best of your ability, give it 110 percent. As for the corvette hardcores all I can say is drop it off at Earl Shieb and they should do an excellent job of duplicating that "factory look".

I agree. I like to make them better than new. I'm working on a 69 Boss 302 and the owner is insisting on keeping all his defects and over spray in all the right places. I think guys here are hot rodders, me included, and we don't want to look at all those factory screw ups.
Bob

 

I would agree, if I was painting for a living I would do do the street rods as I just have a hard time tearing an old Ford apart and making everything perfect and then spraying the underside with red oxide like it came from factory when it should be base/cleared with about six coats of clear.

Could also do custom cycles but my art skills are in the same toilet as my writing skills, so that won't work.

 

Don't you just know the people who worked the line building muscle cars are laughing their butts off at the poor guys "trying" to replicate factory.
I really feel sorry for the resto guys, That HAS to be some b**** work.
"So, Mr. Johnson, Just how did you apply the paint dab on the driveshaft back in 70'???
I just can not do it. Drives me crazy if it's not the best I can make it.
Put the seam sealer on with a brush and the lines were KILLING me.

 

in my opinion there are 2 schools .. one is the over restoration of cars. And the other is trying to be as original looking as possible .

I own a 1964 Studebaker Hawk that has 20k original miles on her and she is just the way she came out of the factory. All original never been restored just little things like painting the rims when the tires are changed or cleaning up the battery tray. I dont show it any more. I would get points taken off the car because there was areas in the engine compartment that were just misted with paint and the primer shows and there is a run in the rear 1/4 panel under the gas tank door .

Had a guy offer me more than the car was worth a few years back at The Rhinebeck car show his intent was to do a ground up on her .Said he wanted a car that he knew what he was getting into before he started the resto..I told him "U can bet u wont be getting into this car". I just laughed and walked away ...


I get a kick out guys claiming there car is all "original" but in reality they mean not modified and the car has been completely redone.

 

I'm a firm believer "build what makes you happy". I personally like the look of a tail dragger RAT rod,mono chrome flat black, and either baby moon caps or brushed disk wheel covers. But I also appreciate the full on customs as well as the 100% restores. There is a53 vette up here in jackson MS that is about99% 53 origonal. When you look at this thing you can see the weave of the fiberglass. Stone ugly!! But if you fixed that factory flaw you would make this car wothless. Potatoe- potato! Brian

 

Everyone looks at something differently. I like the early Mustangs that are original in appearance, and feel that they are worth alot more that way. That is that they have not been modified with different engines, suspension, body kits and such. I also like older streetrods and customs. On the other hand, there are alot of guys that think an older Mustang needs to be changed everywhere to be worth anything.

I couldn't do true original restorations, as they are too particular about stuff that means nothing to me. I do like to do work to make the original fit better than factory, while still appearing original.

Aaron

 

Had a friend that believed that you could restore a car if you built it as if everyone on that shift did the best job possible. But in real life it was (is) a job with deadlines so you get what you get.
IMO if the car was as good as it was the day it left the factory it is restored, flaws and all.

Randall

 

I think there are two schools of thinking to this and they are, Make it like the
day it drove off the line or re-do the car to enhance it and make it look sharp !

Personally I think some cars should never be restored as the body lines on them never even looked good, stock out of the factory. "Send the dogs to the crusher" IMHO.

If you have a old classic car that you like, give it a good paint job and drive the hell out of it !, As long as you like it thats whats important.

I had the opportunity to check out some restro cars recently at the Braselton bash at Year One. There were some neat camaro's, Mopars etc all looked
pretty good. I was not very impressed with the paint jobs though. There were
lots of BC/CC jobs that just looked out of place on these old cars. Kind
of like the clear was shouting off the car.. Hey look at me I am a mirror clear coat but btw dont bother looking at the body lines.. Kind of funny really.

If you happen to live locally to Atlanta, the Year One Braselton Bash shows are really worth the trip when they are on.

x711

 

Preach the value of a quality fit and finish, Brethren ! :drool:

The losers out there making a killing on image and advertising, slapping together fiberglass speaker enclosures and throwing in a flat screen or two then bolting on new wheels, that stuff kills me! I sincerely put 110% into the cars I finish. I spend hours blocking panels over and over until every square inch of them is just how I want it to be. I did high-line production collision work for many years, and was convinced to go to work in restoration several years ago. In my opinion it is all paint! If it's a "factory-style"restoration you prep it as such, but you still finish the rockers and door jambs just as nice as the rest of the car. I've painted cars ranging from: numbers matching Concorse style restorations, where I gobbed seam-sealer in places and over-sprayed bottom sides with body color, to fiberglass pro-mod cars with elaborate airbrush-work, to all custom, smoothed-out, shaved, altered, precisely-fit show quality resto-mods. All of these had different areas I had to adjust to. It's all a matter of knowing what the finished product is suposed to be. What does the guy paying for it want?

Much of the out-come of the bad finishes you see, is to blame on customers who go over budget on engines, interior, wheels, and extra "bling". Then they get to the paint and say things like, "na.. lets not worry about the floor." Or there is the dreaded "Don't spend to much time on it." And there is also the classic shop management issue, the killer, "We gotta get this one done, it's been here to long. Knock it out!"

The key-culprit is the knowledge of the customers. If they would educate themselves they would see the flaws and lack of quality, as we do. Then they could demand better work. This would help to over-come the hype of some places, and allow the creme to rise to the top!

So I say "SPREAD THE WORD!" and if it's wrong "POINT IT OUT!" :thumbup:

 

in restoration you can not make the car better than factory. a laser straight early vette is destroyed as far as original goes. you must return it to it's original condition. the waves and imperfections must remain. i have had to regelcoat a vette because it had been redone by some custom shop that knew nothing about restorations.

Shine makes a good point on true restoration work.

I have owned and painted several CJ-5 over the years, the last one I owned 15 years and just sold this last summer.

I never once put diamond plating on or filled in the factory spot welds in the body panels.

I used to laugh when people would ask - "why didn't you take the dents out"

Duhh...factory spot welds...

 

The other night on Overhaulin they did a 70 Mustang restomod. It was the blue "Boss 302". The car was very nice, great color and they replaced the whole front end instead of repairing the damage from a previous accident. At the end of the show, the camera pans across the bottom of the rocker panel, before and after. The after shot shows the wavey lower lip of the rocker panel with all bumps from the spot welds. If it was supposed to be an original restor, I could see leaving them as is, but being it was a total custom project, the lower edge of the rocker panel really contrasted against the otherwise straight bodywork they did.