3500 with lockup is just right.
Here is your converter
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hup-21-35l/overview/

 

thanks for the reply..

620 bucks sounds awful high for a converter.. im thinking i could probably do a manual swap for less than that, but i only want to do this once, and i want to do it right.

what are your thoughts on manual vs auto for a street/strip car? I have other 5 speed vehicles and i love driving a standard, and i love the thought of being able to shift at the ideal rpm when drag racing.. but i spent too much on the engine already so i need to save money where i can.

if i do stay with the 200r4 i plan to mod the governor to raise my shift points a little, but even with those mods i dont think i could get my shift points up to ideal rpm. the basic idea is shifting 500rpm past peak power, right? This cam will probably be making peak power close to 6k rpm and i don tknow how i could get my auto trans there

 

I assume this isn't a stock 200 is it? If so....then open your wallet if you expect it to live behind even a mild 383..... and when built with VB mods you can shift it up or down whenever you want....
If the car is going to see more strip then street and you find the off the shelf converter expensive then you would be better off with a TH350/400
That Hughes converter is cheap for what it is, the "right" way is to call a converter company with all your info and have them build you a converter. But now your into big$
I love a stick as well, but pedal assemblies are not easy to find for G- bodies, unless you findsome from an Iraqi taxi, or you can mod f-body pieces to work, but now find a good 5spd that will live with sticky tires and a 383....again, big $
Money can make anything work, but sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.
A mildy built TH350 with a 3000stall and a set of 3.73's and a 275DR gets the job done.

 

And that 7.5 rear isn't going to like your 383 and sticky tires either lol.
Everyone builds power first, I learned (from here) to start at the back and work your way up.
A budget/mild 355 and a 200 4R and stock 7.5 is just fine, now add 100hp and torque and see what happens....it gets ugly fast.

 

i was told the trans was "built" for the strip but the only mod i can actually verify is a shift kit. if i blow the trans, i blow it. same with the rear. I am gonna work with what i have for now and replace it as i break it lol. I am going to go out on a limb here and say my 355 has somewhere close to 400hp and its survived so far. havent had it to the track yet though.

as far as shift points though how will the car act on the street if i push my shift points up 1000-1500 rpm? will part throttle shifts be affected?

 

You can leave your shift points alone, depending on the shift kit you could/should already have control of up/down shifts when in manual mode if you want to "play".
As for the 3000 vs the 3500, I find a 3500 a little much on a street car. So 3000 is a compromise, with the 200 you have a lock up converter so when in OD it will lock and act as a normal converter taking the slippage, therefore "heat" out of it. Thats the beauty of a modern OD trans. That and the .68 OD......

 

also curious, is there a reason youd suggest a 3000 stall with a turbo 350 but 3500 with the 200r4?

still pretty new to the hotrodding thing. My grandpa can fix anything under the sun, and has worked on chevys for many many years, and has taught me a lot already. but hes not into performance lol

 

The difference between the 200R4 and the TH350 stall speeds is the 200R4 is a lock up converter, so can work easier with higher stall speed.

 

You have 230 deg of duration and over a half inch of lift.

Why would you not want to use a 3500rpm stall?

I think people have some misconceptions on the driving operation of a stall converter.

A 3500 stall is not going to prevent you from ehjoying the ride. I actually prefer a 3000+ stall with a nice build and some gears. Its kind of the whole period era modded muscle car package.

Dynamic converter will build it custom to your specs, and they have lasted well for me. When I upgrade to OD trans I will use them a third time.

So why is 3500 rpm too much? YOu think the car wont move forward at part throttle or something? Seriously what?

It is clear the direction you took the build. Finish it right.

 

To answer,

Set the trans up right. Calibrate the shift points and forget the manual type valve bodies ..for now. Holding it randomly in gear is kind of silly. I think only low give full main line pressure.

These B&M governor calibration kit approximations are for WOT . Yes, it affects part throttle and the sequential following upshifts happen sooner.

GM#24202127 = 4400 rpm
Blue&Yellow 2 & 3 = 4900 rpm
GM#24202117 = 5000 rpm
Blue & Yellow 4 & 3 = 5100 rpm
GM#24202122 = 5200 rpm
Blue & Yellow 2 & 5 = 5300 rpm
Blue & Yellow 5 & 3 = 5500 rpm
Blue & Green 4 & 5 = 5600 rpm
Blue & Green 3 & 5 = 5600 to 5700 rpm
#3 and #4 give you 56-5800
#4 and #5 give 6000 or a little higher, so probably the #5 and #6 would get pretty close to 6200.

 

First,I doubt your engine will pull 6500,
with any authority.
second,I see this 383 not that much over 400hp.
If you dyno the engine you can choose the stall
speed exactly.
Is this build for a 13 second car?

 

alright, i appreciate all the advice. looks like tax returns will be getting me a quality 3500 converter.

and vinnie, ive gotta ask, what in the 383 combo looks like its gonna be a 400 hp motor because ive gotta admit i was hoping for around 450-475 and 500 ft lbs? 10+:1 compression, 200 cc dart iron eagles port matched, casting clean up., bowl blend and streamlined valve guide bosses, polished exhaust ports, 3 angle valve job. didn't skimp on the bottom end parts. 230 duration cam with 1.52 comp roller rockers and eddy rpm intake? most likely top it off with a 750 holley. similar combos with afr heads supposedly make well over 500 hp.

 

oh one other thing.. does a 100-150 shot of juice down the road change anything with torque converter selection? lunati says the cam likes up to 200 shot.

 

The cam is a little small for your HP goals, 240-250 @.050 and 550+
The AFR 210 would have been a better choice.....and a 750 gets it done but an 850 would be better.
Small shot (100-150) with a quality converter isn't a problem. Any more and you will want to use a specific nitrous converter.
Your build is fine, and will likely see 430+HP
But you left a lot on the table is what Vinnie is saying.

 

400ish hp isn't much, I wouldn't go over 2500stall, just enough to idle at a traffic light but it needs to lockup at modest driving rpm or you'll be back on here getting advice to deal with engine heat.
Stay with the 750, a 286H cam would be nice with that combination.
You'll need a good set of headers to let the motor breathe, the typical storebought ones are cobbled up so do your homework - don't even think about those 'blockhugger' type headers.

 

I disagree with about everything...

The cam he has is very sizeable for something not track dependant. The hp goals on pump gas are inflated. My rpm type builds( non stroked) made about 300 whp. My less than 268 cam builds mid 200's, performer 350's 200whp. My 4 cylinder dohc's with 9-10 psi boost could not break 200 whp. Adding cam when the build isn't supporting it, is the worst thing you can do. All my expireince has led me to forget the big cam , and invest in superchargers.

Left on the table? Don't fall for that lingo.

Build the platform / chassis you have...or change it and really race. Not this half way race, look I can drive it...sort of.

What happens with a 2500+ stall at light? You actually suggesting it wont idle?

I have used over 3k stalls with no problems. I towed a boat in a supercharged c10 with a 305 and 3000 stall and 3.73 gears locked up(350c trans) at 65. The biggest effect it had on drivability issues , was launching a boat hanging off a boat ramp.

 

I wasn't suggesting more cam given the head choice. I was suggesting a cam based on a better head. If I'm building a 383 street/strip motor and not afraid is using a 3000-3500 stall then why not use a better head, and then cam the motor to suit compression and available head flow. "Leaving alot on the table" to me means building a street/strip 383 with iron heads and a small cam, then wondering why it rattles on pump gas and doesnt make the 500hp i thought it would. If its a 400hp and change street motor, then less cam, less compression and a smaller head could have made plenty of low rpm torque. Im not disagreeing that a lower compression 383 with a mild cam and forced induction wouldn't make more power with better manners.

 

Header? His header size is a factor. Was it mentioned?
We regularly made almost 500 flywheel hp on the engine dyno , at trade school , through 1 5/8 tubed $100 headers.

When are suggesting the step up needs to occur?

 

bygddy,

youve been around the game a lot longer than me and are much more knowledgeable, but im surprised to hear you talk about the iron eagles as if theyre a poor head choice. A handful of people swear by them. I picked these heads up complete with lunati valve springs, comp magnum rockers, comp magnum pushrods, locks, comp cams retainers, etc for about 600 bucks. I don't think I could get a better set of heads for what I paid. The flow numbers (from independent tests, not just dart) looked really good out of the box and then a little port work on top.

do you not htink these heads are capable of making 500 hp or is it that my cam choice is way short? could i put a 240 -250 duration cam on the street and make usable power from stoplight to stoplight? ill buy a bigger cam, if thats what needed because no, i dont want a 13 second car. I want a 12 second car, low 12s hopefully after some suspension work.

 

The iron eagles are a great head, I don't like an Iron head unless its class mandated or a budget type factory build.
I'm not sure what you payed for them so let's just assume it was significantly less then a 210AFR head which is a pricey head.
The flow numbers on the Darts show
.200" 130/109
.300" 194/158
.400" 242/198
.500" 274/208
.600" 283/214

Now look at a budget alternative like a Pro-filer 210
.200/158.7*
.300/211.0
*.400/261.5
*.500/285.0
*.600/289.9*
.700/294.7
*.800/294.8*

Now admittedly the .700" and .800" are uselss on anything resembling a street motor, but the low lift numbers tell the tale. This is on an "as cast" head with a 2.05 intake valve, nothing exotic.
Mild clean up nets even better numbers.
Now take into consideration the benifits of alum heads better heat disepation.
Then the weight savings.
From pro-filer with either a 2.05 or 2.08 intake valve, springs for a 650 hyd roller cam your looking at $1140.00
The heads support 550+HP as cast, now add your 240-250 cam
I like this with a 3500 stall
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hrs-110275-10/overview/make/chevrolet
Assuming your compression is appropriate. Chamber size on the profilers can accomadate this.
This would easily eclipse 530+ HP with an 850 Carb on a single plane intake.
For something a little milder using your dual plane intake you could use
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hrs-110265-12/overview/make/chevrolet
And still make 500hp
Again.....I don't know what you paid for the Dart heads....if the price was right then by all means, they work well.

 

I missed the part about getting into the 12's and 500 hp, game changer. You'll need at least 3K stall, maybe 3.5K; the cam might be conservative, i'd be looking into a nice mechanical, 540-560ish lift about 260ish @ .050; keep the 750, the 850cfm might give you a little mph in the quarter mile, but i think the 750 will give you some bottom end - it is a small motor

 

I've got about 600 in the heads, fully assembled all aftermarket parts, pushrods, and magnum rockers.

And ohj, 500 hp isn't necessarily my goal, set out for 450+ hp and 475+ tq. The 12 second thing came up from Vinnies post on the last page asking if I was building a 400 hp 13 second car. I didn't set out to build a certain second drag car but I would just like to think my engine combo paired with a solid suspension could get me in the low 12 ballpark, 11s with a 100-150 shot. I'm going to go with a quality 3500 converter if not a special built one.

 

I'm sure you have already been told, but may I make one more suggestion? If the lunati is brand new in the box why don't you sell it and pick up a hyd roller? Everyone is scared off by the initial price but Howard's makes a quality piece for a very good price.
I use flat tappt cams still but usually only low lift cams that don't demand a lot of spring pressure, and i use an additive always.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hrs-cl110265-12/overview/make/chevrolet
This will make more power across the board, never require special additives, and you hopefully will never experience that dreaded moment when you hear a ticky ticky noise and wonder why your rocker arm has come loose.....(yah that's the cam lobe wiped out causing that)
Ask me how I know.....

 

11's..Oh man, that's dreaming.

Be careful , magazines lie, people lie. I have no idea how to go 11's with your platform. Perhaps , just lie..

My fastest track vehicle was a 70 440 cuda. 509 cam/4.10-4.56 gears/hi stall/etc. In about 1989' it ran 13 flat. That is reality. It was built right too. Never returned with a vehicle of my own to a track. Just made my fun street toys.

Couple years after graduating trade school , one of my classmates who was dedicated and licensed, tried to put something together with a bunch of friends. Like a team.. I helped the brothers put this together, but it was not my dime. It was a 235" chassis 454" 4.11 33 17-16" tires 1250 custom 4bbl. Ran 7.50 /7.60 at 175mph on alcholoh. XL Series-235"-Rear Engine Dragster-4 Link-23" cage-One piece fiberglass body-Advanced ET NHRA Certification . It was Earth shattering.

 

11s is dreaming with a 150 hp shot of nitrous on top of my combo? Looks like every 11 second combo posted on the net is a big fat lie then, lol. btw, 11.99 is still 11s to me

 

You are correct. Just because I never figured out to do it, does not mean its a lie. I speak from my learning and experience, and my hat in the ring says 11's is dreaming.

I am certain on some forums , their are plenty of exaggerations.

Also I don't spend 10 grand on a engine build and another 10 k on the chassis/drivetrain. Or buy a new car ever, or every 4 years. I am poor. My nice cars im lucky to have, My 71 cuda convert was like 4grand in 80's. My 01 GSR was pretty expensive $8k. 85 C10 was $1900. I have probably spent about $20k buying vehicles in my life. not including taxes/reg/stickers. I still have 4 of 5 vehicles I bought .

apoplogies, if Im getting too chatty..

 

i wish i would have bit the bullet and went hydraulic roller when the funds were there, but i am a commissioned salesman, and business has been slow. im going to have to work with what ive got, unless i decide to buy a bigger cam and just use the lifters and valve springs i have now. the cam price is doable, its the roller lifters i can't swing right now.

 

That i can appreciate, that link I sent you included lifters btw.

 

only time will tell, and 1/4 mile et is really no more than a **** hanging contest. i didn't set out to build a drag car just a hot street car that i could take around town and burn the tires off of it, and mainly just have FUN.. maybe some saturday night racing. i think the 400hp guesstimate just hurt my ego a little bit lol

just for the heck of it, i saw a combo posted on one of the camaro forums with 10:1 383 with tfs heads, a 224 duration cam, same intake and 750 carb. same 200r4 and 3.73 rear. claimed 10.70s n/a in a camaro a few hundred pounds lighter than my monte.

 

on

just for the heck of it, i saw a combo posted on one of the camaro forums with 10:1 383 with tfs heads, a 224 duration cam, same intake and 750 carb. same 200r4 and 3.73 rear. claimed 10.70s n/a in a camaro a few hundred pounds lighter than my monte.

Yeah, that's a lie.

 

one more question.. do you guys know of anyone on the forums around the charleston, wv area? id love to be able to link up with someone around here that knows what they are doing.

 

I'm not going to debate with Spinn on this, we share a different opinion which is cool, but 12's on a NA 383 with suspension and sticky tires isn't difficult by any stretch.
G-body's are one of the easiest platforms to go fast in.
An "honest" 450hp 383 with a 150 kit on top of it, a 3.73 gear and a 255/60 DR in a mild prepped chassis should be able to be driven to the track, run easy 11's and drive home.
Spend some time on Index page • GBodyForum.com - 1978-1988 GM G-Body Cars & Community
And learn how to set it up for the best compromise of street and strip.

 

To get 11 sec in a 383 , my guesss would be..

4.88 gear with a 10.5x30 tire, 3000lbs max wt. 850+ cfm 4bbl on a single plane. at least 11:1. mech cam like .600" lift. 312 -312-106 deg center. race converter. race gas.

 

Your talking 600+ HP with the right heads and easy 10's at 3000# with a well sorted car based on your combo.
11's if my sister is driving it maybe.
But hey.....that jmho