I would think you would need a rear end gear low (numerically) enough to allow the engine to not run out of rpm's before it reaches that speed. As for power, you would need enough to power the amount the weight of the car to that speed and overcome the effects of drag of car at that speed. Making the car more aerodynamic would help as well. Also some sort of wing or something to keep the car on the ground and gripping might also be necessary.

 

your gonna have to redo the entire aerodynamics of the car at that speed drag lift and all the fun forces start getting noticeable. the bottom of the car will need to be curves like the top of a wing to create suction, and the rest of the car has to be flawless in its finish. drag increases by the 4th power, so, it adds up quick.
many horses will be required for that boat to reach that speed, my guess 900+.

hope that made sense!

 

Required horsepower is proportional to the cube of the top speed. So, if the top speed is originally 110 mph, it would take 8 times the original horsepower to reach 220 mph.

 

8 times the original horsepower? The greater part of them had 300+ HP engines and can go...seems, around 120+MPH. So,needed approximately 2000+HP.It is too much...Well, about 1500 horses is possible to get....You mean stock 3-speed trannies, or...?

 

You'd be hard up to find a 50's car with 300+ horsepower in my opinion. Maybe some old caddies but they were also extremely heavy.

You wont get there utilizing the stock engine out of any of those old cars.

 

Ежу понятно…

You'd be hard up to find a 50's car with 300+ horsepower in my opinion. Maybe some old caddies but they were also extremely heavy.

You wont get there utilizing the stock engine out of any of those old cars.

I also speak, that the stock engine, it not that, needed something more advanced. That Caddies is extremely heavy, it’s certainly true, but say yes, late ’50 Caddy, which can go 220 MPH would be totally awesome.

 

much MPH

Four basic ingredients to top speed.
Horsepower, Aerodynamics, weight, and gearing.
Aerodynamics plays a lot more crucial roll as the speeds get higher.
For instance, The Nextel Cup cars are capable of doing 200 MPH, and do it with engines that put out approximately 600 HP, in 3500 LB vehicles. The key with that is the aerodynamics.
As for cars from the 50's and 60's not being capable of high speeds, many cars built back then were easily putting out in excess of 300 HP, and could run all day long on the highways at speeds in excess of 120-130 MPH, and there were more than a few that could top out over that.
The biggest problem with them was that most were designed with the aerodynamics of a brick, and thats what kept them from attaining higher speeds.
Realisitically, and it has been done. A full sized car, like a mid 60's Chevy or Ford, weighing in at 3800 LBs, could run in excess of 175 MPH with an engine putting out about 500-550 HP.
The key is knowing how to make those old bodies aerodynamic so they could attain such speeds, and keep them stable. Having raced stock cars in my past, I had to learn a lot of those tricks the hard way.
Another consideration is that you will need tires that will hold up at those speeds as well.

 

Вот я и говорю, что если не аэродинамикой, т&#

I also speak, that if not aerodynamics, so though indemnify by power. Aerodynamics of a brick – it’s said fine! As I know, early Ford Galaxie have heavy weight & very bad aerodynamics, and its performer’s image was maintained larger and larger engines. Certainly, 1000+HP engine and race tranny can yank around even ’59 Caddy with pretty high speed, but you have me curious in “how to make those old bodies aerodynamic».

 

Wasn't it Andy Granatelli who "streamlined" a '57 Plymouth and ran it at Bonneville? Should be able to find it somewhere on the 'net. Come to think of it, I think it was on the cover of one of the Hot Rod annuals.

 

saw them interviewing one of those 50's nascar racers who bootlegged whiskey back in the day saying his car would go "180mph up hill or down" and it was a pre 50's something or other but sounded like just about anything those guys drove would do it. on a back country road too. and no doubt at night. can you imagine that?

 

It is really interesting, as they reached it...

 

moonshine kicks ***

 

200 MPH stockers

As for aerodynamics and streamlining, there are several things you can do to make those cars a little more slippery.
One is to lift the body off of the frame and remove the insulators. This will lower the body between 1-2 inches on the frame, putting it closer to the ground, reducing the amount of air flow going under it. Also lowering the vehicle on the suspension (not as in a lowrider) to get the correct ride height, and that is not a job for someone that isnt up to speed on setting up chassis. This will require resetting your front end geometry for the vehicle to handle properly.
Another trick is to use fine mesh screen on the grill, or even blank it out with sheetmetal. You will still get plenty of air flow under the bumper, to keep your engine cool.
Shaving off all the crome, door handles etc.
"Tightening up the Body", by realigning all the fenders, doors etc so you eliminate or reduce the gaps between them. Most needful of this is the gap between the hood and the fenders.
Close off openings in the bumpers, like slots for license plates.
Take sheetmetal and make end caps for the bumpers, to reduce the turbulance at the corners.
fill in the gap between the upper and lower back edges of the front bumper and upper and lower leading edges on the rear bumper and the body. One way of doing that on alot of vehicles is to shorten the bumper brackets so the bumper fits flush against the body work.
putting an air dam under the front of the vehicle works well. Place the air dam just below the radiator mount, and all the way across under radiator support.
Louvering the hood at the rear, just ahead of the firewall will allow all the hot engine compartment air to escape, reducing the resistance to air flow in the front end.
If you are good with metal work, raise the windshield out from its mounting tabs so it is flush with the roof and side posts.
Do the same with the rear glass, as well. With the kind of speeds you are wanting to go, you will want to install 2-3 retaining straps from top to bottom on the rear window, as that is a high vacuum area, and your window can actually be sucked out of the mountings.
A real spoiler on the rear deck will help in keeping the rear end down on the ground, as at high speeds, they do tend to want to lift. Beware though, spoilers also tend to create a lot of drag, like pulling a parachute, so you only want to put a couple degrees of down angle on it. Just enough to keep the rear stable at speed. best to use an adjustable spoiler. Use one that mounts close to the trunk, not one that sticks up a kazillion feet in the air.
Inclosing the underside of the car with sheetmetal will also make it slicker. Smokey Yunick did that successfully.
Richard Petty actually dented up the roof of one car like a golf ball, and that works as well. Would take an aeronautical engineer or a golf ball designer to explain all that stuff about laminar air flow.
Putting clear covers over the headlights, that mount flush with the body will reduce the parachute effect of the headlight wells.
Same with the tail lights if they are inset into the body.
Just a few things on making a brick slippery. They all work, and have been used for years.

 

Dr. Shapiro discusses the "golf ball effect" in his book, "Shape And Flow." A swing that would produce a drive of 230 yards would, with a smooth golf ball, provide a distance of only 50 yards. Golfers initially discovered the effect when they noticed that "scarred" balls traveled much further than new balls.

The reason for this is that the size of the wake (the "hole" that is being punched in the air) is affected by the point at which the boundary layer separates from the golf ball.

It would be interesting to take a modern NASCAR ride and glue coarse sandpaper over the major exterior surfaces near where boundary separation is expected to occur. (I'm sure this sort of thing has been tried and there probably is an SAE paper available on the results.) Since I don't know the Reynold's Numbers involved (golf ball and race car), I have no idea whether it would help or not.

 

saw them interviewing one of those 50's nascar racers who bootlegged whiskey back in the day saying his car would go "180mph up hill or down" and it was a pre 50's something or other but sounded like just about anything those guys drove would do it. on a back country road too. and no doubt at night. can you imagine that?

Sounds to me like he'd been "lightening" his cargo........ :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:

 

Sounds to me like he'd been "lightening" his cargo........ :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:

HA-HA-HA-HA!!! :thumb up:
With lightened "cargo" we can go with 200+ MPH even on broken down car...but only in mind...only before hangover...

 

As for aerodynamics and streamlining, there are several things you can do to make those cars a little more slippery.
One is to lift the body off of the frame and remove the insulators. This will lower the body between 1-2 inches on the frame, putting it closer to the ground, reducing the amount of air flow going under it. Also lowering the vehicle on the suspension (not as in a lowrider) to get the correct ride height, and that is not a job for someone that isnt up to speed on setting up chassis. This will require resetting your front end geometry for the vehicle to handle properly.
Another trick is to use fine mesh screen on the grill, or even blank it out with sheetmetal. You will still get plenty of air flow under the bumper, to keep your engine cool.
Shaving off all the crome, door handles etc.
"Tightening up the Body", by realigning all the fenders, doors etc so you eliminate or reduce the gaps between them. Most needful of this is the gap between the hood and the fenders.
Close off openings in the bumpers, like slots for license plates.
Take sheetmetal and make end caps for the bumpers, to reduce the turbulance at the corners.
fill in the gap between the upper and lower back edges of the front bumper and upper and lower leading edges on the rear bumper and the body. One way of doing that on alot of vehicles is to shorten the bumper brackets so the bumper fits flush against the body work.
putting an air dam under the front of the vehicle works well. Place the air dam just below the radiator mount, and all the way across under radiator support.
Louvering the hood at the rear, just ahead of the firewall will allow all the hot engine compartment air to escape, reducing the resistance to air flow in the front end.
If you are good with metal work, raise the windshield out from its mounting tabs so it is flush with the roof and side posts.
Do the same with the rear glass, as well. With the kind of speeds you are wanting to go, you will want to install 2-3 retaining straps from top to bottom on the rear window, as that is a high vacuum area, and your window can actually be sucked out of the mountings.
A real spoiler on the rear deck will help in keeping the rear end down on the ground, as at high speeds, they do tend to want to lift. Beware though, spoilers also tend to create a lot of drag, like pulling a parachute, so you only want to put a couple degrees of down angle on it. Just enough to keep the rear stable at speed. best to use an adjustable spoiler. Use one that mounts close to the trunk, not one that sticks up a kazillion feet in the air.
Inclosing the underside of the car with sheetmetal will also make it slicker. Smokey Yunick did that successfully.
Richard Petty actually dented up the roof of one car like a golf ball, and that works as well. Would take an aeronautical engineer or a golf ball designer to explain all that stuff about laminar air flow.
Putting clear covers over the headlights, that mount flush with the body will reduce the parachute effect of the headlight wells.
Same with the tail lights if they are inset into the body.
Just a few things on making a brick slippery. They all work, and have been used for years.

Well, I read, read... In general and whole fine, thanks. But I'd like to update some details.
1) Lowering suspension.
Suspension with variable ground clearance, like that, which was optional on '59 Caddies and standard on Eldorados, still alive? It would be needed to keep ability to drive on back country roads.
2) Shaving off all the chrome, door handles etc.
Э-э-э… How doors will open? And can be kept chrome? I enjoy chromed trim on these cars...
3) I don't quite understand about lowering the hood at the rear.
4) Also not quiet understand about clear covers over the head- and taillights. I can't imagine, as it will look with bullet-style taillights.
5) Spoiler on finned cars? I don't mind about spoilers on mid '60 - early '70 cars, but on late '50…

 

Studebakers were used quite a bit on the salt flats, they're fairly aerodynamic. Supercharged versions were available. Many of the 50's cars weren't actually all that heavy, they just looked heavy, depending on what you consider "heavy". This would make a cool project. Dan

 

slippery cars

As for lowering the car on the suspension, this requires using shorter and stiffer coil springs in the front and lowering blocks between the leaf springs and rear axle, if your vehicle has leaf springs in the rear. If its got coil spring rear, then using stiffer shorter coil springs apply to the rear as well. This is not something that you will just walk in and find parts on a shelf. Using shorter coil springs with stiffer spring rates requires knowing your vehicles weight at each corner, and knowing the suspension geometry as well.

Linconln and Cadillac both had variable suspensions for a few years, but I believe the cost was too great for the demand and they stopped production of such units.
As for doing back roads, if you are going to lower a vehicle for aerodynamics and for handling, you will just have to take your chances on the chuck holes etc on gravel roads.
The chrome can be kept but the idea of removing it was to minimize the turbulance it causes, no matter how slight. when you shave off the door handles, this requires using electric celinoids to open the door latches or else leave your windows down all the time.
As for the hood, that was LOUVERING, not lowering, the hood at the rear.
Louvers are a small slot cut in the sheetmetal and are formed with an anvel that fits near the slot. What they look like is a very small hood scoop, about 1 inch tall and usually 2-3 inches wide. The opening would be facing to the rear, toward the windshield. Having several louvers across the rear of the hood, just ahead of the fire wall a few inches will allow the hot air buildup under the hood to escape, allowing more cool air to enter and cool the radiator. This will also, due to the air flow coming out from the louvers, reduce a hi pressure point at the base of the windshield, which is an air flow restriction. Again this gets into a topic called laminar air flow and I dont really understand it all, but do know it works.
Im not sure what you are referring to by bullit style headlights.

As for the golf ball effect, and the idea of using sand paper, which the texturing would have a similar effect, up until the late 70's, early 80's, most super speedway cars were running matte or flat finish paints just for that effect. I dont recall the exact year but it was probably when Winston took over the Nascar Grand National Class, that the idea of shiny paint jobs became somewhat mandatory. Gotta look pretty for the grandstands and the advertizing.
You will notice that when the NASCAR and other sanction teams go to Daytona prior to the opening of the season, to do test and tuning, vertually all of the cars are still in primer, which is a flat finish paint, and here again we get back to that laminar air flow thingy.
Spoilers on 50's and 60's cars.
The only reason they put those fins on cars in the first place was to give them a supersonic jet aircraft appearance, a theme which was followed through on both the windshield and rear glasss of most of the hardtop vehicles of the time, As well as how instruments were clustered in the dash. The idea was to give the illusion of speed, as though one was flying his own Jet Fighter plane. If you look very carefully at pictures of the aircraft built during the 50's and 60's, then study the styling of most of the major auto manufacturers of the time, you will see a lot of styling cues were taken from aircraft, IE bullets in the grill to represent the intakes of jet turbine engines (49-55 Fords, particularly). Markers on top of the front fenders and hood ornaments that vaguely resemble gun sights, tail lights that look like the exhaust on a jet engine.
The one inherent thing putting fins on some cars did was give them some straight line stability at higher speeds, mearly by accident, Im quite sure.
These fins would have little effect on a spoiler, unless you are dealing with something like a 59-60 Chevy, which the fins did have a tendency to make a car light in the rear at high speeds, in which case, the fins would be fighting with the spoiler for air flow supremacy. A vehicle with fins that run straight up and down may help in creating a minor channeling effect of the air to assist directing it over the spoiler.

 

Im not sure what you are referring to by bullit style headlights.

Headlights? Oops, I meant Taillights, it was eclipse. I need time to read and understand, will be reply soon. :thumbup:

 

That article about the bootlegger that ran 180 all over, that was in Mopar Action, it was a large 4 door chrysler (supersized so it could hold a lot of the shine), stock looking with boring paint so Johnny Law wouldn't suspect that he was breaking any laws.
If you ever read about about any supercars, like a Speed 12, they say that about 240 is the highest a car can go, because of the drag factor just becomes so tremendous.

68

 

If you ever read about about any supercars, like a Speed 12, they say that about 240 is the highest a car can go, because of the drag factor just becomes so tremendous.

68

Speeds about 200+ MPH should be enough to any Road Warrior, especially if it’s a full-size car.

To: Max Keith

Actually, on Cadillacs this “air suspension” was not very expensive option, but very unreliability. Don’t know about Lincolns, perhaps, too.

And that: so, what with gearing and tranny mods in all?

 

Idea

Hey,comrades,these aerodynamic improvements can not be those visual improvements, for which one I so long search?
In sense, they can give to these cars more awesome appearance?

 

variable suspension

About 10 yrs ago, Lincolns were offered with a variable ride height, which was determined by some computer setup, when the car reached somewhere around 60-70 MPH, the car would lower itself on the suspension, mechanically, about 2 inches. I was under the impression Cadillac had a similar system. I remember the Air Ride system used in mid 50's Olds, Cadillacs, and Buicks, and they had a problem with the air bladders blowing out at the wrong time(if there ever was a right time). A cousin of mine had a 58 Olds wagon, I think it was, had the air ride in it, and was hooked to a compressor on the engine. He finally got tired of replacing the air bladders and went with a total spring setup and did away with the compressor and everything. Worked great when it worked, though.
As for 200 MPH bootlegger cars, most of them during the 60's and early 70's (the waining years of the real bootleggers), most did run big block Plymouths or Doges or Big Block Fords, in full sized sedans. Take into consideration that these were generally supercharged etc, and were capable of pulling these 4000 LB cars at well over 200 MPH.
Even the old sedans that ran Flatheads were capable of running well over 130-140 MPH, even with 40 Gallons of Moonshine in the trunk.
To see what can be achieved with stock bodied autos, one only has to look at the records set at Bonneville.

 

Гы. I knew, that those cars have great potential, but at all did not imagine, as far as. I thought it’s very difficult to accelerate them up to such speed. Yes, it’s true mighty cars. Seems, best of late ‘6o – early ’70 musclecars (like hemi-powered MOPARS) can run around 200 even more easy.
Large displacement rules!