Yeah, that spring will work.
Be sure to check that you have enough clearance between the underside of the spring retainer and the top of the valve guide/valve seal at your full cam lift.

 

should be plenty considering its only a 450 lift cam lol but i do plan to do bigger one day

 

This kind of thinking has tripped up many....the stock Vortec heads are only good for .440"-.470" lift (it varies by casting number and production run)and it isn't because of the spring and retainer package....it is because of the height of the top of the valveguide in the head.

If you don't check the clearance between the underside of the spring retainer and the top of the valveguide/valve stem seal and it hits it will bend or break something in the valvetrain or wipe out the cam lobes......so it is your responsibility to check.

A lot of guys think "Oh, I've replaced the stock springs and retainers with springs good for .500"+ lift so I'm good to go on my Vortec heads"... and it later bites them in the A Z Z because they didn't check for clearance at the valveguide top.

The .450" lift puts you smack in the "it might be fine, it might need correction" zone on clearance.

 

These are beehives they require a special retainer and for the 11/32 stem a special lock that bridged the metric hole of the beehive retainer to the US fractional inch of the stem. The Comp 787-16 retainer and matching locks for the 11/32 stem ,not 8mm. This must be called out on the part or you're in trouble.

At assembly if you have the wrong locks they will sit proud of the retainer, where the correct lock will be flush with the top of the retainer. So watch for this and correct if necessary. Make double dog damn sure of this as a mistake will cost you the engine.



Bogie

 

see now im confused beacause i have zero idea how to do that

 

whats a good bolt on spring then cause i dont have the tools to do all this stuff

 

L31 Vortec heads require you to do this drill if the lift at the valve exceeds .45 inch. The cam should spec the lift at the lobe and often provide the lift at the valve for a 1.5 rocker. The lift at the valve is the lift at the lobe multiplied by the rocker ratio. That is a .25 inch lift on the lobe times 1.5 nets .375 at the valve while with a 1.6 rocker this would be .45 inch. So having the cam's timing card and doing some math will give you a good feel for whether there is a problem or not.

Then comes measuring, there good and expensive tools for doing this but the cheap way is to mock up the valve assembly with the parts to be used then with a pocket 6 inch steel ruler depress the valve open to the calculated full lift then measure with a feeler gauge the clearance between the bottom of the spring retainer and the top of the stem seal. Yeah you have to put the seal on before doing this. The minimum safe clearance is .050 inch.

For Vortec heads there are tools that chuck to a regular electric drill to mill down the top of the guide. The OD may also have to be sized for a positive seal if that wasn't done by the factory. The other ways of doing this is to have a local auto machine shop do it, not to expensive; or do what's called a ghetto grind which is to take a cut off wheel in a right-angle grinder and after measuring for the cut on the guide, whack it off at the cut line. This also requires you dress the edges inside and out of burrs.

There is no bolt on spring that gets around this, the beehives may let you get away with a couple hundredths but by no means are going to solve problems in the range .05 to .1 inch or more.

You can play with offset locks these can be had in plus or minus .050 inch which will move the spring retainer up or down a little. When going up you need to shim the spring from below a like amount to prevent losing closed pressure. You still have to provide about .050 clearance when the valve is fully open to insure these parts don't hit at upper RPMs where valves and springs are bouncing and lofting, and rocker studs are waving like a tree in a hurricane.

Bogie

 

ill take your work for it lol i need some springs tht are drop in

 

"Drop-in spring" does not mean you can just ignore making a basic check.....it is on you, the installer and end user to ensure the clearance is there. You are the only one who loses out if you skip this and it bites you when you fire it up.

It's like homework, you need to do it to pass the class :thumbup:

 

Quick and easy check, put the spring retainer and a pair of valve locks on a valve then pull the retainer up to seat it on the locks and pull the valve tight to the valve seat, just like it would be if the spring was there but invisible.....then measure with a steel machinist scale from the top of the valveguide or positive valve seal to the bottom of the spring retainer around the valve locks.
Take this scale measurement and subtract your valve lift plus an additional .050" for clearance. As long as your scale reading was bigger than the valve lift plus clearance amount, you are good to go. Pull the retainer and locks back off the valve and install the valvespring and the rest,

Check both an intake and exhaust, not just one.

You can also use a pair of 6" digital or dial calipers for this check.....which you can get for less than $10 online Amazon or Ebay and are a good thing for any car guy to have around. Calipers will also be helpful for getting a installed spring height measurement to see if you need to shim your springs to get a correct installed height. No hotrodder should be without a pair.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-150mm-LC...e-Ruler-NEW/273190275901?epid=8017262908&hash=item3f9b68cb3d:g:75UAAOSwvIpajs0a
https://www.ebay.com/itm/150mm-6-LC...el-Vernier-Caliper-Ruler-US/163021972663?hash=item25f4dde4b7:g:m8oAAOSweLZa498R
Get stainless, and not carbon fiber jaws, as carbon fiber will wear out.

 

I tried to fit beehives on a 1991 Chevrolet S10 V6 L31 and they created more problems than they are worth. Instead of beehives, I use the tried and true Z28 valve springs. They are still available from GM and Summit. They will as is fit if you machine the inner valve spring locating boss on the heads so it will fit the flat damper on the Z28 springs. Otherwise remove the flat dampers and no machine work will be necessary.

They set up at 80 lb on the seat and maximum safe valve lift is .490” and will last 100,000 miles. The flat damper hav little effect on the spring rate.

If you feel like you engine needs more camshaft and spring pressure, install a roller tappet cam and machine the heads for high rate valve springs, with more than 130 -150 lb seat pressure and. 340-380 lb open pressure.

 

i put in thefirst post i am using summit 1785 cam

 

The 1968-1969 Z28 valve springs are still available from various parts suppliers, including Summit. Aftermarket clones are also available. GM part number 3911068.

Those were used on my 1962 Chevrolet Bel Air 327/300 during a rebuild in 1968. The are still good after 60,000 miles with a GM “151” camshaft that has .447” valve lift shifting at 5,500 RPM occasionally. Higher lifts reduce valve spring life.

Your 1785 camshaft has .450” valve lift and Z28 valve springs will work good and will not pound out the exhaust valve seats.

 

so will they work on vortec heads?

 

https://www.ebay.com/p/Elgin-Z28-10...=2&rkt=6&mehot=ag&sd=322886978565&itm=221658201803&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

 

is this the right spring

 

Yes and no....you don't need the +.100" spring(1943X), just the regular 943X.
available for $12 per set of 8, so 2 sets = $24 from Competition Products.

You have to pull out the damper spring to use them on the stock Vortec spring seat/valve guide.

Elgin, Performance Valve Springs, 1.260" O.D., 118 @ 1.700", 318 @ 1.210", Set of 8 - Competition Products

 

so this link will work fine with my cam and everything?

 

i just have to pull the 2nd sping in the middle? how hard is that to do?

Yes, it is the same spring you'd use for this cam on any older stock SBC head.

Simple to remove the damper, you can either push it out with a blunt punch, or grab one end with a pair of needle nose pliers and pull it out. It doesn't come out hard at all, no harder than it takes to pull a soda can off a 6-pack plastic loop stringer.

if you want foolproof with no need to check any clearance at all then I suggest you follow TechInspector's link to parts from Alex's. Been used by tons of people.

 

i just have to pull the 2nd sping in the middle? how hard is that to do?

 

oof man this is becomeing a headache fwew lol man i just want cheap springs that drop in and i can just run it guess i should have went with powerpack heads

 

alrighty well since elgins are only 28 bucks may give that a try

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but this whole project becomes a ton easier with the summit 1787 cam.

The lift is .427 which is plenty safe and the z28 springs mentioned above are a slam dunk for this cam.

The cam you've chosen says it has a "lopey rough idle" and that would be for a 350. On a 283 it might turn into a much more radical idle than you are hoping for.

If it is the lift you are looking for, the 1787 with 1.6 rockers gets you .455 at the valve and the duration is going to be much more in line with what a 283 is going to want. You are going to lose that lopey idle, but pick up a bunch of bottoms end. And I think that cam in a 283 is still going to make itself known a little bit.

I just think that cam on that motor with those heads, you are going to have a very soggy bottom end, and are going to have trouble getting it tuned at idle.

That's nothing more compression, a recurved distributor, and a 2500+ rpm stall converter can't solve, though.

I do have a prediction, though:

I predict that you go ahead with the hotter cam, then come back asking for advice getting it to idle and not die when you put it in gear.

Just my thoughts

 

i respectfully disagree as 283s love to rev and also gasser guys ik run double humps and 600 plus lift on 283s and ive seen 2 holly old school 600s on them so the 450 lift with 1.5 rockers will be fine

 

I have no problems with a gentlemen's disagreement.

To be clear, though, i'm not questioning the 283's ability to operate at high RPM, i'm questioning it's ability to operate efficiently off idle with that large of a cam.

The description says "lopy rough idle" "9:1+ compression" and "largest that works with a stock converter" which is going to be true for an engine 65 cubic inches larger. I think that cam in a 283 is going to be pretty snotty with a more radical idle than you might expect. that's all i'm saying. i'm sure it will scream like a banshee once you get it wound up, but it might be kinda soft down low. the operating range on that cam starts at 1800 rpm in a 350. in a 283 it might be more like 2600 rpm.

Maybe your deep gears will help it pull through without any other help, and i'm all wrong. It really depends on what you were wanting. if you want the radical idle, then you've made the right choice. but if you were targeting lift in the .450" range, and had to go with that much cam to get it, then i was offering another way to get there and saying that if you can do with a smaller cam finding springs becomes a whole lot easier.

just sharing my thoughts.

I'll be interested to see how it runs once you get it back together.

 

thats yes ill put a stall in it

 

The Z28 valve springs are being reproduced by many manufacturers. That is because they can be used on so many SB Chevrolet heads with success and they are dependable. They are also good for camshafts that are up to the flow limits of stock cast iron SB Chevrolet heads.

They are recommended for stock Chevrolet camshafts with the slow lift rates found on stock Chevrolet cam lobes. Most aftermarket camshafts have fast lift rates and require higher spring pressure. Those camshafts don’t last as long as stock camshafts.

 

oh ok well wich is the best option then

 

Cam you've already picked out is nothing radical as far as lobe ramp rate is concerned, it will have a long life. It's a now old school cam grind that has been around since at least 1982, if not even earlier in the late 1970's. It was one of Crane's more popular designs, if you search "Crane 274H06" on YouTube you find at least a dozen sound clip videos.

Spring options have pretty much all been laid out if front of you, just take your pick.

Couldn't find a 283 sound clip with that cam, but a 305 is not that much different in cubic inch, it will sound a lot alike.

 

From cruising the YouTubes there's a few sound clips on 305s and 350s which to me sound about the same. There's some clips on 327s which to me sounds quite a bit more rowdy.

https://youtu.be/VMU1sX3jdR4

I would expect the sound to be more like the 327 than the 305 due to the shorter stroke.

Again, JMHO.

Not to make this about me, but when I was cam shopping for my 305, Lunati recommended their 218/218 -110LSA cam. After listening to this cam on that 305, I'm sure glad I didn't go with that cam.... would have been WAY too hot for what I need (drastically different uses, being granted).

Going back to my earlier comment, they way you were fussing over the cost of springs, it didn't seem like a different converter was on the radar or in the budget, hence my comment about a smaller cam. It appeared to me that you saw "lopey idle" "9:1 compression" and "stock converter " in the description and made that your pick.

If you are willing to throw some stall at it, and with the deep gears, I think it will be a lot more fun.

I was thinking a 2500 rpm stall would get you there, but Eric is recommending much more. Obviously I'm not going to argue and will defer to him, but I would like to know why he picked that range.

 

If you are willing to throw some stall at it, and with the deep gears, I think it will be a lot more fun.

I was thinking a 2500 rpm stall would get you there, but Eric is recommending much more. Obviously I'm not going to argue and will defer to him, but I would like to know why he picked that range.

My experience is with street/strip and dragrace background....the single biggest mistake I see hotrodders make, at least guys who plan some track time or at least want to be the hot guy on their block,... is buying too little stall.

They look at "cam rpm range 2500-5500 rpm" and go right to looking for a 2500 stall converter.....that's not going to work the best if you want the vehicle to really jump off the line, as the cam is just starting to come into its power curve but is still quite weak really....it's better to give the cam a little rpm run at the converter first, so the engine is actually really starting to develop some power so it really "hits" strong.
If it was a pure drag only machine, or he wanted an absolute take no prisoners effort out of his 283 on the street, then a 4500-5000 rpm stall would be the place to start.
If you look at competitive Stock Eliminator class type drag racers, something like the 250HP 283(I think that is the original power rating here) in L/Stock Automatic 1966 Chevelle....notice the dyno chart doesn't even start until 5000RPM!!!:evil: And this is a hydraulic cammed engine, not a solid lifter....

NHRA Legal Stock Eliminator 283 Chevy - Hot Rod Network

So that is why you will usually see my converter recomendations higher than most, especially just street cruiser guys. If it is a well built converter, it won't be all "sloppy" or "slip at cruise speed" like the cheap $300 or less 2200-2500 stall crap is.

Another factor in this case is how converters are rated. Common off the shelf stuff typically is built to need 400 ft.lbs torque input to reach that stated stall rpm....his 283 isn't going to make 400ft.lbs at any rpm, let alone anywhere near 2500 rpm, so if he buys a cheap 2500 stall converter he will be lucky to get 1900-2100 rpm stall out of it.

Hopefully that answers a few questions for you guys.

 

Yes it does.

Thank you for sharing your insight.

 

He's also gunning for a set of 4.56:1 cogs, or at least I seem to remember that.
iron headed 283, 9:1 SCR, 274H06, with the little 5L vortec heads? This things going to be a riot for a young hotrodder (and more than a few old ones). And its not so wild that its going to let him down or frustrate him to the point of not finishing (like the Thumpr cams and etc can). He seems to have realistic expectations, a realistic budget and a very good eye for detail..
Its going to be a little challenge certainly, but thats how we learn. And lets be honest, he;s not doing anything we didn't do around his age. He's gonna have something to be real proud of, and considering how many young guys would rather tweak a subaru, any new member into the congregation is welcome.