[jokerZ71]

That that depends on my brother in law. He said he had a set of crower roller lifters. If he don't I'll probably go with flat tap lifters........probably, nothing is set in stone on this.:mwink:

Have you already had the block machined?

 

[mta]

Have you already had the block machined?

It's at the shop now, should be ready Wednesday.

 

[jokerZ71]

It's at the shop now, should be ready Wednesday.

OK.I was just thinking,maybe it would be a better idea to find a later model 1 pc rear seal roller block that would allow you to be able to use the GM OEM roller setup vs a retro-roller kit,but,your rotating assembly is already ordered & is likely for a 2 pc seal.
IDK what your machine work is costing you but,ATK,& Summit sell the finished blocks with all the machine work done & proper clearancing for the stroker kits.They are usually around $700.ATK was running a sale awhile ago for $100 off that price.I guess it's a little late in the game for that tho.I do strongly suggest tho that you go with a roller setup.

 

[mta]

I have a complete 6.0l engine I thought about using but wanted to keep the original block in the car. (car only has 65K miles)

 

[mta]

What the 383 is going in.

 

[camarodriver67]

mta, spend the extra cash on your heads. The heads is what makes the power. I would purchase a set of Pro-Filer heads with 195cc intake ports, 64cc chambers unless the compression needs to be lower. Straight plugs with 2.02/1.60 stainless steel valves. $1263.72. How much do you expect to spend for a set of heads that can produce up to 550 hp? A good roller camshaft and a set of these heads along with a quality short block that has a 10.0:1 compression ratio is all you could ask for.

 

[camarodriver67]

After reading everyone's comments I'm now leaning towards these 68cc heads, thoughts?
Skip White Performance Detail Description

How about comparing intake flow numbers with the NKB's and the Pro-Filer heads. NKB .200-138, .300-188, .400-227, .500-244, .550-250. Pro-filers .200-145, .300-209, .400-254, .500-273, .600-274. Clearly you see the difference in the cfm the Pro-Filer's flow. Look at the heads Skip White compares the NKB's against. Pro Comps are one of the worst heads on the market. Why not use a Dart Pro 1 in testing?

 

[ericnova72]

...... Why not use a Dart Pro 1 in testing?

Funny you should mention comparing to Dart Pro-1....when you compare numbers to the Dart Pro 1 Platinum 200cc head the NKB numbers are virtually identical, within 2-5 cfm of Darts posted numbers at any given lift point until you reach .500" lift, then the NKB's are down 20 cfm.

Easy to see why they are down at .500" lift though, the Dart gets a couple minutes of hand blending with a grit roll on the sharp lip right below the edge of the valve seat in each port...the NKB doesn't, you'll have to do it yourself.

It all makes sense when you find out the NKB/ProHeader/Assault casting(name depends on who you but it from, it's an imported casting) has been reported as a copy of the Dart Pro-1 Platinum 200cc.

I've got a bare pair on the bench right now, I can't visually see a difference from the Pro-1's I ported for a friend a couple years back. It's a nice looking casting. Chad Speier shows some detail here:
• View topic - Import core for "BUDGET" CNC head.

 

[64nailhead]

I have a complete 6.0l engine I thought about using but wanted to keep the original block in the car. (car only has 65K miles)

In the original post you had a goal of 400+HP and you were already committed to the 383 build. You've been told about alot of ways to blow right past your goal and I know it's easy to start changing your goals once into the build process. I'd strongly recommend to keep your goals that fall in line with your budget - I've veered off the original path once or twice and it always seems to lead to either disappointment, delays or both.

A set of budget NKB heads, Profiler, Promaxx, Blueprint, Vortecs, etc are going to blast you past your ORIGINAL goal. Spend the additional money on the roller cam setup for longevity so that yo and your son can drive this car for the next decade with no fear of major failures. Build it on the 'mildish' side and enjoy. A 425hp or so C3 Vette is no slouch now and won't be a slouch 20 years from now either.

Help your son build another car with a stronger effort motor in a more HP friendly/budget chassis later - you'll still have the Vette then.

Jim

 

[vinniekq2]

couple comments:
You did not say what the application was going to be? A corvette is a road racing car even though the C-3 does not handle all that well. If it will be driven with spirit in mind as apposed to drag racing the rear gear ratio is not part of the engine build. When building a performance engine you start with the heads not the bottom end. The power comes from the breathing of the engine. There are a few "stock" hoods that have more room under them than the flat hood. Like Richard mentioned, the correct hood is good for 40 hp(indirectly).

I would start by looking for a deal on a set of heads that suits the power you want/need. If its only 400 hp then you could use stock GM vortec heads. If you spend the 13 bills on profilers you could build an extremely nice 430 hp engine That would match that car perfectly.
Profiler 195s, a small "solid flat tappet " cam that would hint of the muscle car era and not have the terrible idle qualities of a fat hydraulic flat cam that makes less power. Set compression ratio at 9 3/4 to 10 1/4:1 for a daily driver. Rpm intake and a 750 cfm carb(hopefully Holley double pumper or something better. 1 5/8 long tube headers. This engine would make use able power from when you let the clutch out until 6k(with a small solid cam) And I don't care if you have 2.73 gears it will work.
Cannot choose cam specs until you pick the heads!
cannot pick the rotator without have head specs available. You will need a good free flowing exhaust system that is also a bit louder than stock to enjoy the stereo at W.F.O. jaunts

 

[mta]

Lots of good information coming in and I appreciate it.
Sounds like I need to do a mid-post update of my plans for the car.

1: I have no plans to replace the hood or modify it in any way. This is a nice all original car and I'm planning to keep the body that way.
2: I'm not building a racecar and that's why I'm not worried about squeezing out every bit of power I can from this build.
Sure I would rather have a 550 HP motor but I'm kind of like Mr. Crabbs on SpongeBob "I would rather have me money".
3: This car is just a side project to show my 14 year old son how to build an engine.
Most of Y'all's ideas are mild compared to his. He thinks we need a supercharger.......

When it's all said and done this will be a weekend Hot rod and will probably be sold in a year or two.

 

[mta]

Eagle rotating assembly is installed with piston to deck height of. 025-.027. Pistons are Speed-Pro H860CP30 +5.00CC.
Looking to now use, NKB 200cc/68cc aluminum heads setup for roller cams with Fel-Pro 1094 head gaskets. That should put me at. 040 quench.
If all the above looks acceptable, let's talk cams!!

 

[mta]

What do you think about this Voodoo?
Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 270/278
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .515/.530
LSA/ICL: 112/106
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 1800-6000
Includes: Cam & Lifters (#72330-16)
Part Number: 20120711LK

 

[mta]

I saw the increased lift but failed to notice the decrease in duration. Looks like the larger barebones is still the better choice.

 

[jokerZ71]

I saw the increased lift but failed to notice the decrease in duration. Looks like the larger barebones is still the better choice.

When comparing cams,you want to pay more attention to the @ .050 durations than the advertised durations.A good example is if you look at the smaller of the Barebones & the VooDoo you linked.Looking at the advertised durations,it would appear that the Barebones cam is larger,so,you would assume it would make more power.However,when you look at the @ .050 specs,they are almost the same.With 1*.In this case,the VooDoo would actually make quite a bit more power tho,as it has more lift & it has a more aggressive lobe profile that will make more power under the curve.It will however,be harder on your valvetrain & parts,due to the aggressive profile than the Barebones.
While the Barebones cam may get you into the 380 HP range,that VooDoo will likely get you very close to your 400 HP with all the supporting equip.
Tho your compression is a little higher than I would like for this build,it is not a deal breaker,even with the smaller cams.Either cam should work well & allow you to tune for max power.You will still be in a safe range for pump gas & aluminum heads.


Using a bigger cam to prevent excessive cylinder psi is not a good way to go about things.I would much rather see you use a larger chamber head,or,piston choice for this build,rather than trying to crutch it all up with a cam that may not be what you want.Also keep in mind that if you have retrictions on the intake & exhaust,a bigger cam is not gonna make up for that.If the air can't get in & can't get out,the bigger cam is not gonna fix that.

 

[jokerZ71]

You didn't seem to be worried about his compression in post #11 when you told him that his 11.2:1 was "perfect" & of no concern at all,"rite where he needed to be" & this was before a cam had even been discussed.Or...was this just to make up for the fact that you recommended a head without even looking at his combo & pistons before throwing that head out there ???Now suddenly you seem to think his 10.6:1 is too high & is gonna require a bigger cam with more duration than it would actually need to hit his goals ????? Not to say that the bigger Barebones won't work well.Because I never said that,even tho you try to imply that I did.I was just advising that any of those cams would work & that he didn't HAVE to use the bigger cam for the purpose of his higher compression & that doing so for that reason was the wrong way to go about it.

 

[jokerZ71]

I also find it very convenient that even in this thread(post #11 again) you throw that Jeep calculator out there as always & laud it's accuracy,but,now,suddenly today,since it doesn't support your advise & info,(8.6:1 DCR vs 9.3:1)you want to suddenly consider the @ .050 timing which will always show a higher DCR & use it,just to make yourself "appear" to be correct.


What a tangled web we weave.
The truth is always easier to remember than BS.

 

[mta]

Just spoke with Big Mike at Skip White's and he recommended A Howards 110255-10 cam.
Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,200-5,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 231
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 235
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 231 int./235 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 284
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 288
Advertised Duration: 284 int./288 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.530 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 int./0.530 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110 imp:imp:

 

[jokerZ71]

mta, when I have it on my mind, be absolutely sure you get the actual part# for the PBM valves used in your heads, if you go with that 68 cc head.As I told you earlier, that is the exact same 64cc head.The extra 4 cc comes from the large dish in the valve, not from a different chamber size, so, if for any reason, you need to replace a valve, it will need to be this same valve, or, you can very likely end up with serious problems on your hands.Hopefully they won't be discontinued in the future,& if so, at least if you have the actual part #, you can cross reference it somehow. That is 1 of the problems with Skip & other marketers as well.They sell & push a certain product, or, part for so long, then, for whatever reason, wether it's pricing, quality problems, etc, suddenly switch up to a different brand & getting the correct replacement can be a real PITA.Without that particular valve, you'll be back at 64cc & 11.2:1 compression. Kind of a tricky situation to be in, but, a common problem when you try running on the edge, or, trying to build around a specific part after the fact.

 

[jokerZ71]

The point was to be sure you have & retain the actual part# for that particular valve.It will make getting replacements alot easier.Wether it's common, or, not is of no importance, if you don't know exactly which valve it is.
Maybe it's just me, but, using the part # to call up & order the correct part sounds much simpler than trying to match up another valve, or, taking it somewhere to have it machined.They are all options if you like to go the long way around the block.