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454 with thumpr cam

10K views 15 replies 9 participants last post by  1934ford454  
#1 ·
I have built a 34 ford with a 454 bbc and 700r4 tranny. I have dual Eldebrock 500 CFM carbs (1406) on an aluminum intake. The cam is a thumpr and exhibits a very radical idle. Everything has been tuned and re-tuned but I have one issue that I need some help on. When I crank the engine in the morning and let it heat up to operating temp everything works perfect with the idle circuit and on the acceleration side. I can barely idle at 900 rpms in gear, but it still idles and does not stall. I have a 2500 stall converter in the car. During this particular time I am satisfied with everything from idle to wot. After I drive it for 10 minutes or so and push it a bit the car will not idle period; in gear or out. I hooked up the vacuum advance on the hei dizzy and it made no difference on or off. There is nothing connected to the vacuum ports on either carbs. The engine will run fine when this happens as long as I keep it at 2000 rpms, but nothing below that. I will check the vacuum in the morning to see what I have but it won't run long enough after the test drive for me to check virtually anything. What gives????
 
#3 ·
Another problem may be fuel boiling in overheated carb.s... if the intake manifold is heated by exhaust crossover, but you're never going to drive it in winter weather, block the crossover ports off via the readily available little port blockers... shown in the middle of these two gaskets:

Image
 
#5 ·
I had a similar issue on my 67 fairlanes 390 and it had an aftermarket intake with no exhaust crossover. The high heat under the hood would cause the gas to flash boil as the pressure dropped from 5 psi to 0 when it got to the fuel bowl. When i figured it out gas was bubbling out everywhere from the top of the carb, and dripping from the aircleaner.

Winter gas was worse than summer blends too, so if you're still running gas bought a month or more ago that could be some of it.

I eventually had to put a return line on my Fairlane to stop it completely. May not be your problem but its something to check.

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#6 ·
I had a similar issue on my 67 fairlanes 390 and it had an aftermarket intake with no exhaust crossover. The high heat under the hood would cause the gas to flash boil as the pressure dropped from 5 psi to 0 when it got to the fuel bowl.
Jay Leno mentions the same problem with his Ford and his Dad having the same problem with the same car back in the day... at 4:45 in this video:

 
#9 ·
Fresh build, or did this just develop?

Vacuum leak? They are tough to check though with a cam that doesn't make any vacuum at idle with anything other than a can of ether or carb cleaner spraying all over your motor :(.


Where do you have the timing at? Initial, all in degree and at what rpm?
 
#10 ·
trying to respond to all the great comments:
I do not have an exhaust cross-over
If I had a fuel pressure or filter issue it should not accelerate to 2000 rpms fine. The stall out comes when it is below 2000 while in park. I would think that the problem is in the idle circuitry.
The initial timing is set at approx. 15 at idle when I can get the car to idle before the test run. I haven't checked the all-in timing.
I will verify the fuel pressure again, but it runs around 6.
Fuel cell is vented but I will check it again.
Is there something on the vacuum side that will cause the stall out idle when the engine heats up?
thanks everyone and keep the suggestions coming.
 
#11 ·
If I had a fuel pressure or filter issue it should not accelerate to 2000 rpms fine. The stall out comes when it is below 2000 while in park. I would think that the problem is in the idle circuitry.

I haven't checked the all-in timing.
The first item above is incorrect. With a pump making 2 psi and 5 gallons per hour will allow the engine to run well past 2000 rpm's because the bowls hold a lot of fuel. Especially on a dual carb set up. Basically, there is no good reason not to confirm that the fuel pressure is in spec - 4-6psi and enough volume to make through 5-10 second WOT blast.

15 degrees initial with a Thumper is probably not enough initial (guess only), but you NEED to confirm/set your all in timing before too much driving over 2500 rpms is done IMO.

You didn't answer - fresh build or did this just develop?
 
#13 ·
After you get your engine warmed up try and set your timing to at least 20*. It may take more just experiment. Once you have the timing set adjust your idle to 900-1000 rpm. If it were my engine I would get rid of that Thumper cam. It is a known fact that the big block Chevrolet engine will wipe the lobes off a hydraulic camshaft. Google it to find out all the information. I would get a Camshaft like this Howards Cams. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-cl120245-12 They are really good camshafts made here in the USA. One thing not to forget is to change valve springs to match your camshaft. You will also need retainers and locks. If you don't work on engines just take your heads to your machinist to install the valve springs. I always use roller rocker arms on my big blocks like these. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1014/overview/
 
#14 ·
I did not build this engine. It was put together by a guy in Fla and I bought it as is. Ran good with a holley 650 with vacuum secondaries, but have problems with the dual quad 500 Elde's. This also makes me think that the situation can be resolved fairly easy as it did fine with the holley.
I will try setting the timing to 20 and then the idle rpms. I am very much aware of the cam lobe and lifter disaster. I had this to happen to me year before last in a 350. I did order the Howard's cam kit for the rebuild using hyd. roller cam and lifters in addition to roller rocker arms. This is a great product..
 
#15 ·
FYI we just ran into a similar issue with my sons V8 Ranger, pressure was good at idle and revving in park. Driving the vehicle hard it would flatten out and have trouble making it past 5000 rpm and when you dropped the throttle it would want to stall.

Pulled the fuel filter and changed it, pressure went up 1PSI...we cut the filter apart and it was so plugged you couldn't see light through it. Also now it doesn't hold pressure at the regulator for hours until it bleeds off...now its instant.

Just saying, don't discount the simple and obvious until you know for sure.
 
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