Here you go, not only the hood but the rest of the panels too! :welcome:

Brian

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“Basics of Basics” Body panel alignment
By Brian Martin


Nothing adds to “detail” on a car more than nice fitting panels. If the car is a light color it is even more important. Those “black lines” that are the gaps between panels really look bad if they are not a consistent width. While using this guide and aligning your panels be sure that you open and close the moving ones very carefully after a change. You can loose the gap fast which will allow the panels to hit, so be careful.

I have to start with this very important point. ALWAYS have the car sitting on it’s wheels or at the very least the weight of the car should be on the axles. That being if you want it on jack stands to raise the car up and give you more access to the bolts and such, place the stands under the control arms as and rear axle. They should be out as far as possible towards the wheels. This can still cause problems on the front. Even in a little from where the tire actually holds the car up can change the amount of pressure being exerted on the car’s body. A car can be twisted or bent more than you can imagine up on jack stands when the stands are set on the frame allowing the weight to hang off the ends. This is VERY, VERY important. Of course this goes for anytime a panel is being fit, either welded or bolted on.


Hood alignment: Let’s start with raising and lowering the rear of the hood. If the car you are working on has a hinge that sits on top of the cowl, your only options are to shim or bend the hinge. Bending the hinge slightly is one way to move it. If you need to come up in the rear you can put a small block of wood or other item on the hinge, to bend it. When you close the hood down (NOT ALL THE WAY) it will get in the way of the hood closing and bend the rear or the hinge up. If you need to bend it down, the only option may be to remove it and bend it a little. You can also shim the bolts between the hood and the hinge, more on this later.
If you have a hood where the hinge mounts on the side of the fender or the side of the cowl like with an older car or truck, you want to "rotate" the hinge on the fender. Just pushing the hinge up and down will give you very little movement on the top of the hood.
This is the strange little trick that you have to remember, if you raise the back of the hood on the hinge or raise the back of the hinge on the fender the hood will go up. If you raise the "front" of the back of the hood ON THE HINGE or the hinge to the fender it will go down. What you have to remember is you are working with a pivot point in the hinge, not a stationary part.
If you loosen the FRONT bolt on the hood (where it bolts to the hinge) and put a shim, or washer between the hood and hinge, this will LOWER the hood on that side. If you put that same washer under the rear bolt it will RAISE the rear of the hood on that side.
So, if you loosen the bolts from the hinge to fender and close the hood, the hinge will rotate on down in the front right? This will raise the REAR of the hood like putting a shim in the back bolt between the hinge and hood!
What you need to do to lower the back the hood is to loosen the bolts (only slightly) and PUSH UP on the front of the hood. This rotates the hinges back, thus raising the front of the hinge and lowering the hood in the back.
If the hinges are warn out it won’t change how high the hood sits when the wear, not by more than a fraction of an inch. And I have never seen a car with these style hinges that you couldn't put the hood a half inch LOWER than the fenders if you wanted to. The adjustment is HUGE on these cars. That is one of the things that is easy to do on them is align panels.
I recommend you remove the striker or latch from the hood so that you can move it up and down without worrying about the latch grabbing the hood. After you have aligned the hood, take a piece of dumb-dumb or clay or something similar and put it on the latch. This way you can see exactly where it hits when you do install the latch. You bring the hood down till you just tap this dumb-dumb but DON'T LATCH IT. Just so the hood makes an indentation in the clay/dumb-dumb. This tells you where you have to move the latch.
I do this at work everyday, by myself so if you can't get help this is the trick. Always leave one bolt on the hinge tight. If you want to rotate it back, leave the front bolt tight. If you want to rotate it forward, leave the rear bolt tight. When you move the hood forward or back on the hinge, leave the bolts snug enough that you have to tap on the edge of the hood to get it to move. Or if it needs to go back, leave the bolts a little snug, and wiggle the hood up and down and the weight of the hood will make it slide down. Remember it only needs a 1/16" or so to make a 3/16" or more change at the front. To pull the hood forward on the hinge loosen them so they are still a little snug so you have to pull up on the back of the hood to make it slide that little bit. If you loosen it up so it moves anywhere you want it, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH YOU MOVED IT AND YOU WILL MOVE IT TOO MUCH, GUARANTEED.
Get the hood laying flat first, then move the hood forward or back on each side to make the hood fit the hole between the fenders. If the gap is large on the front right and small on the front left, then the hood needs to me moved back on the right side. As you move the hood back on a side it will close up the gap in the front of that side and open it at the rear of that side.
You may need to move fenders too. Just do each change slowly, move it VERY LITTLE. Look at the bolt and washer as you move the panel, you will see where the washer used to be, the amount is much easier to control if you watch the washer movement.
If you need to move the hood up or down at the front, you have a few ways to do it. First, on each side there are the “bumpers”. The hood bumpers are located at each front corner and look like a bolt with a rubber pad on top. Just unlock the jam nut and raise or lower the “bolt” so it holds the hood at the height you need to match the fender. You may find that the hood won’t go low enough even with the bumper down far enough. The latch may not be down far enough. When you close the hood, you shouldn’t be able to pull up on the hood or push it down. The latch should be tight enough to hold it against the bumpers tight, but not too tight. If you have to apply too much force to open the hood or it opens with a loud POP, the latch is probably too tight. If it is at the right height but you can lift it up some, then the latch needs to be moved down.

Doors: If the doors are off the car, bolt the hinges to the door and the cowl in the middle of the movement allowed. Let’s face it, it “shouldn’t” be too far off the center of holes. If the doors are on or if after putting them on things are way out of whack, raise the door up on the hinges as far as it will go while still staying about the right height. You always want to start high, it is much easier to come down than go up. Besides this is the ONLY time you will loosen all the bolts on the door. I don’t mean ALL the bolts, leave the hinge to cowl (or center post on a four door) tight. Only loosen the door to hinge bolts. Unless it is WAY down then you may need to move the hinges up too. But do one at a time, both door to hinge or both hinge to cowl/center post.

While moving the hinges aligning the door NEVER loosen all the bolts on the hinge, NEVER. Loosen all but one, just till it is still a little looser than “snug”. Leave that last on just a little snug. Let’s say the door fits well but is a little too far rearward. NEVER loosen top and bottom hinges and move it forward. Loosen the top hinge to cowl/center post as described above and lift the rear of the door, a LITTLE. This will push the upper hinge forward. Now TIGHTEN that one bolt that was left snug. Do the same on the lower hinge, pushing down, but remember the weight of the door is helping, so little push is needed. Many times no pushing at all, just the weight of the door will do.

If the door fits well but is out at the top or the bottom, again, loosen ONE hinge to DOOR in the manner described and push it out or in. If it is out or in at the top rear for instance, move the bottom front in the opposite direction. This will pivot the door on the striker, and move the rear top where you want. Moving the bottom rear takes moving the top front of course.

You may need to twist the door. If the front fits well and rear is out at the top (or bottom, just reverse) you can put a block of wood at the rear of the door at the top lets say and push in on the bottom to twist the door. Some will take a LOT of force to bend, and be VERY careful not to let your fingers hang around the outside of the door edge!! I lost a finger nail doing this on a ’69 Shelby GT500 convertible once (remember it well) when the block of wood fell out with all my weight on the door while twisting!!

Tip: If you are hanging the door and you have access to the hinges (either through the wheel well with the skirt off or if the fender it’s self is off) you can simply hold the door up to the opening and push the latch shut. Then put the bolts in the hinge. I can often install doors all by my self in this way.

Deck lid: The trunk lid is pretty much like the hood but the hinges don’t move at all on the body (usually). So shimming and twisting are a few of your only options beyond the movement in the slotted holes on the hinge. Bending the hinge or pushing up or down on the sides of the quarters, front or rear panel are the others. These should be done ONLY after all other things are tried.

Fenders: Most of the tips for doors and the hood work here, with a little twist or two. Start with fitting the rear top of the fender. I like to put all the bolts in, loose. Not falling out loose, just so the fender would easily move. Close the door, and with the hood open adjust the gap at the top of the rear of the fender to door. After you tighten other bolts this cannot be modified so, do it first. Tighten the bolt under the hood closest to the door to secure the position. You may need to shim a bolt at the rear of the fender to the cowl, to move the fender forward or back. After you have that bolt tight and the gap is to your liking open the door and tighten the rear fender bolt that is at the top of the fender in the door jamb. Now do the bottom bolt, with the door closed, adjust your gap. You may need to wedge a flat blade screwdriver or body spoon to “force” the fender forward to get the desired gap. Or just the opposite, use a 2x4 or something similar off the front tire to force the fender back to get the gap. This is one of the hard spots to get nice because you have to get both the gap and the in and out of the fender to door at the same time with the same bolt. Some cars have two bolts that are far enough apart to get the gap and tighten the front bolt and then pull the fender in or out and tighten the rear bolt to get the flush fit of the panels.

General tips: Bending a panel or adjacent panel is sometimes required. You can get this done in a number of ways, one is to use a block of wood. Let’s say that along the edge of the hood there is a spot that is high. Well you can’t adjust it down, the front and the rear are perfect. So you can lay a block of wood on the spot, right at the edge where it is strong. Using a big hammer (the bigger the better, trying to make a small hammer do the job can cause a lot of damage) hold the block and strike it nice and solid. Then check the results, you may need many strikes to do it. In doing this you may want to support the hood at the front with a block of wood under the hood. This way the hood is up off the fender and it will bend easier because of the solid rest it has. You can also put the block under the edge of the hood at a low spot and with steady pressure bend it down at a point if you need it.

If you are working with very tight tolerances, you can actually grind the edge of a panel or jamb to get an extra fraction of an inch. Be VERY careful and using a fine disk like 80 or 120 take a LITTLE off. You don’t want to grind the metal thin of course but a LITTLE can make a big difference when you are fighting for fractions. Now, you really won’t be cutting too much metal, you are really just cleaning off ALL the primer and paint there. Then when you prime it, don’t put a lot or sand it thin so there will be very little on the edge.

You may want to paint the hinge with a little contrasting paint. Do it with the hinge bolted on, right over the bolts. This way you can see easier how much you have moved it.

These directions are for doors where the hinge bolts flat to the side of the cowl and then flat to the front of the door. There are of course many ways the hinges can be mounted on cars. If yours are different than you need to use the “concepts” that I have described here. If for instance you have a 1950 Chevy pickup. The hinge bolts flat to the back of the cowl but will work the same way. The door hinge bolts flat to the side of the door. In this case you do just the opposite as I earlier described. You would loosen the hinge to cowl bolts to move the door in and out and the hinge to door bolts to move it back or forward. If you find that your car has a design that hasn’t been addressed, take a good hard look at your hinge arrangement. If the door is open, close it enough while you can still see the hinges and imagine what direction will it go if you loosen a particular set of bolts. Get an idea of how you can move it, then start the alignment process.
These are just ideas that I have used over the years and some may work for you some won’t, but it is a start. Above all, have fun!
__________________

 

Very Very Informative & Very Thoroughly Written Post Brian on sheetmetal adjustments!!... but I have a further question ,,, what if ones hood hinges are mounted vertically on the firewall ( facing the engine)..in your expertise opinion ..what hood and hinge adjustments can be adjusted for such a vehicle ( in my case im referring to a 1957 chevy Bel Air ... Any info you could possibly provide/lead me to ..would be very very much appreciated !!...my direct email addy is kshadow57@hotmail.com.... thanks!!..& have a great weekend!!......DESPARADO57 ......kevin s

 

aligning panels

thanks Brian,

I printed this out and pinned it on my garage wall.

Ron

 

No problem, glad I could be of help.

Brian

 

1st thing

thats all very good information but the first thing you do is take the latch off it will bring everything back where it was before the adjustments the same goes with doors and decks TAKE THE LATCH OFF FIRST!!!!!!!!! :nono: :nono

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. You can align a or hood with a latch on. But there are times when you want to remove it. And it certainly isn't going to put it back where it was before you adjusted it, so I don't understand exactly what you are saying.

Brian

 

All very good info. If I am removing a panel to do body work or what have you and it is already lined up good. I start by drilling a small hole usually an 1/8 or so thru the hinge and panel be it hood, trunk or door. Then when you go to put it back together you drop said drill bit into the hole thus lining the panel up exactly where it was for easy and trouble free remounting.

 

All very good info. If I am removing a panel to do body work or what have you and it is already lined up good. I start by drilling a small hole usually an 1/8 or so thru the hinge and panel be it hood, trunk or door. Then when you go to put it back together you drop said drill bit into the hole thus lining the panel up exactly where it was for easy and trouble free remounting.

that works great for doors but you need to drill two holes in each side of each hinge thats eight holes for each door.try a couple center punch marks like on a timing chain, it's not so obvious to a perspective buyer

 

hood alignment made ez

Brian my comunication skills are week I know so I'll try again. If the gentleman is having trouble aligning the hood,I do this: disconnect hinges from hood,if striker is removeable,remove it ,if not remove latch.The hood can now move unimpeded and should be able to be gapped.Now there should be four adjusters in the four corners for up and down,raise or lower them until each corner is flush with fender,now the hood should be perfectly gapped and flush.now you connect the hinges to the hood,raising or lowering them to the position of the hood. when the hinges are adjusted properly. Positon the latch so its centered with the striker,raise or lower the latch so the hood opens and closes effortlessly,if the latch is to far down you'll have to slam it to close and the release will be hard to pull.If the latch is to far up the hood will not be flush anymore.All latches have a V shaped groove that the striker follows,so when adjusting the doors,remove the striker so the door will be able to move unimpeded adjust door to your likeing ,gapped and flush ,replace striker and make sure its centerd with the V of the latch,then adjust the in and out until the rear of the door is flush with the quarter.So lets say you want to raise the back of the door,for example,if the striker is in it will it will follow the V groove down to its original position it has to its how it was designed it will just rub one side or the other eventually wearing out the striker.everything you wrote was absolutely correct except for these first and important steps were left out.It could make for a confussing job for first timer,Hope I cleared things up. :sweat:

 

Brian my comunication skills are week I know so I'll try again. If the gentleman is having trouble aligning the hood,I do this: disconnect hinges from hood,if striker is removeable,remove it ,if not remove latch.The hood can now move unimpeded and should be able to be gapped.Now there should be four adjusters in the four corners for up and down,raise or lower them until each corner is flush with fender,now the hood should be perfectly gapped and flush.now you connect the hinges to the hood,raising or lowering them to the position of the hood. when the hinges are adjusted properly. Positon the latch so its centered with the striker,raise or lower the latch so the hood opens and closes effortlessly,if the latch is to far down you'll have to slam it to close and the release will be hard to pull.If the latch is to far up the hood will not be flush anymore.All latches have a V shaped groove that the striker follows,so when adjusting the doors,remove the striker so the door will be able to move unimpeded adjust door to your likeing ,gapped and flush ,replace striker and make sure its centerd with the V of the latch,then adjust the in and out until the rear of the door is flush with the quarter.So lets say you want to raise the back of the door,for example,if the striker is in it will it will follow the V groove down to its original position it has to its how it was designed it will just rub one side or the other eventually wearing out the striker.everything you wrote was absolutely correct except for these first and important steps were left out.It could make for a confussing job for first timer,Hope I cleared things up. :sweat:

I am sorry DBM I never responded to this what, 8 years ago? That's wild, years past so fast.

You are doing things completely different that's me that's for sure. I have seen guys do what you are referring to, "install" the part and then bolt it to the hinges, I don't get it, I have never done it that way in 40 years of doing this stuff. That is not to say it's wrong, as I say, many do it that way, it's just "another way" to do it.

First off, how in the world do you do it with a hood? I don't get it, you would have to climb into the engine compartment, what if there is a motor there?

I have worked by my self for years and find that bolting it on as good as possible and then closing the panel slowly, then moving it where it needs to go and trying it again and so on has worked well for me.

The striker basically goes straight into the latch. If it's pulling the door up or down at all, it's because the door is too high or too low and the latch is pulling it up or down. I have never seen a door that won't slip closed with the striker in or out, as long as the striker is where it belongs and it isn't moving the door.

We see things a little different, it's all good. I know, I just know that when you deliver a car the panels are aligned properly, I have seen you here long enough and know enough about you and how you do things to know you don't deliver a car with panels that aren't aligned. So that being said, it's just a different way, we do the same thing different that's all.

Brian:thumbup:

 

Mr Martin, thank you, excellent! I hope you use more than one finger [like me] to type.

 

I take off the hinge if it's not a simple fix. If it's a restoration it's already off. Sometimes it gets kicked back to the fenders being raised and even the doors, but there's an order in which one makes his attempts, and rolling the hinges is one the first things you do, then I adjust at the hinge for gaps. If you remember it being low/high, you rotate the hinges to address it before putting on the hood, or at least that's how I was taught.

 

Here is a guide to posting photos. http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how-post-pictures-videos-hotrodders-com-210110.html

I also have a photobucket account. They are free (until have have a few thousand photos and then they will charge you) and easier to use, you can edit them and that sort of thing. Plus, you are in control of them unlike if you post it here on Hotrodders and realized your naked wife is in the back ground of the photo and can't delete it!

With photo bucket, you can delete it, AND edit it to make her look better.


Post photos of your problems so we can all see them and help you through them.

As I said to DBM, there are a LOT of ways to get things done, these aren't the only ways you can do it. The shimming the hood down for instance, if there is no further movement in the hinge mounting to rotate or something like that, you bend the hinge and or the mounting on the hood. This is standard practice, it's just another way to do it. I like telling people the shim trick because it's easier to get it done without damage, and it's easily reversible so you can go back and forth and learn something.


Brian

 

Pics?

Just curious Brian , I replied back to you yesterday Tuesday May 23 with a message and many pics of my hood/fender alignment, im curious to know if you recieved my reply ?.....if not what am I doing incorrect?...thanks DESPARADO57

 

Nope, I have nothing. Post it here so everyone can see and others may have ideas too.

Brian

 

good morning Brian , here are some pics of the hood/fender alignment issues on my 57 chevy bel air Im experiencing , if you have any suggestion as to a cure , they would be greatly appreciated ..thanks ..DESPARADO57

 

Yeow, the first thing I have to ask, were these panels fitting before it was painted? I mean THESE panels, did you replace any? And I mean these panels, were they fit before you painted?


It sure looks like the fenders being low are more of an issue than the hood being high!

Shimming the hood hinge on the front bolt (nearest the front of the car) WILL lower that hood so I don't know what happened when you tried it.

I would start with raising the rear of the fenders. A lot of the fit you have looks like poor shape of the parts more than "alignment" issues. When your fender gap to hood isn't contestant and all that would have been taken care of before it was painted. But honestly, they aren't that bad as to just moving things a bit more will get you pretty nice and likely better than the cars panels fit new, they didn't fit like a 2016 car does now in 1957. They fit REALLY bad actually, so you are getting damn close right now.

I would start with raising the rear of the fenders.

Brian

 

Shimming the hood hinge on the front bolt (nearest the front of the car) WILL lower that hood so I don't know what happened when you tried it.



Brian

I think those hinges mount to the side of the hood. Moving forward probably a good idea to have guys show the issue but also the hinges and for this car even the striker, as that lowers the front of the hood. We both know what we'd do if the car was in front of us but I'm sitting here trying to recall it in my mind. I do remember there not being much compromising with those hoods so more is done at the fender, vent panel, and door if it gets extreme, but there is some stuff you can do. Get the shims out for the fenders, you'll probably need them.

 

So often what we have to accept is a slight imperfect fit everywhere instead of a perfect fit one place and then trying to make a horrible fit somewhere else perfect. Often we give up that perfect fit on one spot to get another area that is really bad to get "good enough" while giving up the "perfect" fit on that one spot so it's now "good enough" too. It's a dance, not choreographed perfection but a country line dance, "nice" fit everywhere is better than trying to make the impossible happen.

Brian

 

First off Brian , I must say ,I very much like your very thought out thorough replies , as most give one liners to stuff i have no idea what their talking about , My chevy was to fitted to the best that they could do at the time , it all looked good to me , but then again im not a bodyman ...hence why i take my vehicles to the experts ..omly to be taken advantage of many many times ...after it was painted and I got it home I started to put all the chrome etc back onto the vehicle , ..when i installed , the front hood bar /hood bar extensions ., this is when i noticed many imperfections , my main real concern is the gap between the hood and the fenders at the front at the hood bar , the bodyman who did my car came over to my place ad told me in order to correct that issue , i had to elonagate the holes in the mounting tab of the frame where the saddle bar sits , so i was told if i do so , i could shift the whole front end clip over to the drivers side to make up the gap difference ...now I must tell you that both front fenders are OEM orginal GM 57 chevy fenders , the hood is original to the car (not aftermarket )...also my front end suspension clip is from a 1972 camaro Z28, which i installed a way long time ago before it was every painted ..I never had issues before I recently had a off frame restoration ..
.
you mentioned to lift the rear of the fenders , how do i go about doing this?

...also i mentioned I installed a shim on the front bolt of the hinge to hood ..and actually made it higher ..the shim I tried was a 1/8 shim ... and I too dont understand why it didnt lower the back of the hood down ...so im curious should I try lowering the hood hinge on the firewall somewhat?

 

Take a picture with the hood open showing me where you put the shim. But again, I am thinking the fenders could go up in the back, the hood looks like it fits well with the cowl, the fenders are what are low. At least that is what it looks like to me in these photos. The fender has a bolt right to the inside of the hood going vertical, loosen that bolt and put shims under it to raise the fender. You also need to loosen a bunch of other bolts, above the door hinge for example. I don't know those 57's well and I can't remember where any in particular may be but if you look it over and do what makes sense. But you could cheat a little too and just raise it up at that one bolt near the hood. That one and along the edge of the hood by the hinges should all be loosened to do this. It's hard to say, more may need to be loosened, again, it's a dance. You may be able to just raise the side next to the hood, that is if the fender fits well with the door. If the fender looks low there too, then raise the whole rear of the fender. If it fits well with the door than raising just at the hood makes sense.

On the front moving it out, I would have to look at this way more, I don't have a clue how to move that fender out without a photos.

Brian

 

57 chevy issues

Here you go Brian , look forward to your reply

1st pic -the hinge
2nd to 4th pics are 57 oem shop manual adjustnents -at the top of the saddle on both sides where it attaches to the fenders your able to install shims as well as you can install shims at both ends of the grille/hood latch bar ...hope these help you?...DESPARADO57

P.S -You also can install or remove shims at the base of the saddle bar right below where the radiator sits ( which ive already have done so ,as well as enlongagating the frame tab holes which the saddle attaches too)

 

Here you go Brian , look forward to your reply

1st pic -the hinge
2nd to 4th pics are 57 oem shop manual adjustnents -at the top of the saddle on both sides where it attaches to the fenders your able to install shims as well as you can install shims at both ends of the grille/hood latch bar ...hope these help you?...DESPARADO57

P.S -You also can install or remove shims at the base of the saddle bar right below where the radiator sits ( which ive already have done so ,as well as enlongagating the frame tab holes which the saddle attaches too)

Other than the hinge being all the way down unable to rotate more down I can't for the life of me figure out how that wouldn't lower the hood. I was thinking as I remembered the bolts are pretty close to one an other, that would make a difference. It HAS TO lower it when that is done under normal circumstances.

On moving the fenders out, it's pretty hard to go down the list here without it right in front of me. But you can move it over with the rad support lower mounting to the frame. That is straight up, not a problem, it will move over at that point but loosening up other bolts like inner fenders at the firewall and stuff like that will be needed.

To move the fender out from the hood shimming it away from the rad support upper brackets that bolt to the side of the fender. But there are a zillion other bolts to the inner fenders and grille and what not that would need to be loosened as well.

Brian

 

that fender on the driver's side looks like it needs to be shimmed up as well or hood hinge raised. Those cars in that era never fit good in the factory . There is no rotating the hinge on this one, the slots give you all the movement. Rule of thumb is shim the fenders to accommodate doors and hood, if you have to half the fix here and half the fix at the fender.. not much movement in the hood as far as gaps. I'd check all squareness in front end and even measure cowl distance. They move very easily on those cars with all the years they've been on the road. In a nutshell, there's not too much you can do with those hoods, it's the fenders that need addressing, and some at the hinge. Slotting is NOT out of the norm for hood hinges that doesn't allow you the height, but the fenders are a focal point as well.

 

I could have sworn those bolt to the side. I was wrong. Nice with the newer cars if you have to you can just use your hands and pull up or roll the mounting surface on the cowl.

 

I'd like to see what happens with the core support loose. Perhaps shims are needed between it and the chassis. Not sufficiently familiar with the body style but if there are some fender braces that don't fit comfortably those could also be contributing to the issues.