[boatbob2]

Guard rails.

Long story,about 20 years ago, a semi with an empty flat bed spun,and crushed a toyota pickup up against the guard rail,bad thing was that the toyota driver and his mother were both getting out of the truck,and were squashed ,(not killed,CRITICAL though) the driver squashed by the semi flat bed,the mother squashed against the guard rail by the toyota pickup,the guard rail was about 100 ft long,and they were about 35 feet from the end,guardrails were bolted to wooden 12 x 12 timbers.while everyone stood there with their finger in their a--,i pulled out my chain saw,and proceeded to cut the wooden timbers,the cop told me he was going to arrest me,but i think the running chain saw in my hand scared him off,there must have been 50 people standing there,so as i cut the timbers,i had a bunch of these guys pull the guard rail away,i think i cut 12 of those timbers,after cutting them,we were able to get the lady out to the ambulance,and then slid the toyota pickup out and got the driver out,the cop didnt arrest me,but i got a ticket for malicious damage to state property (i think that was the charge) (long time ago) i took a bunch of pictures,and when i went to court,the judge chewed the cops a--.and i didnt pay a fine,but about a month later,i got a bill for the timbers, i wrote them a nasty letter,and i told them i would epoxy the timbers together,never heard back from the state.

 

[Coodeville]

They have been doing this in New Jersey for years.

 

[Bad Rat 2]

I've always wondered who paid for damaged things like a GR or telephone pole.
I assumed our car insurance paid for it. Guess not. :embarrass

My brother took out the SAME aluminum light pole 4 times,, [obviously it musta been in his way home from the bar]
I doubt he had to pay for it,, ain:

 

[302 Z28]

There is an entrance ramp off 121 to 75 in North Texas. The exit from 121 is a rather sharp curve with a decreasing radius toward the end. There are at least three signs with flashing yellow lights saying 25 mph. Since we have moved up here almost three years ago there have been no less than 50 accidents (no exaggeration) on that curved ramp. Any time it rains or heaven forbid ices over you can count on at least one or two accidents. It got to the point to where we would take bets as we approached the ramp whether or not the guardrail had been damaged. We heard TXDOT was now charging people who damaged it for the repair costs.

Vince

 

[mike the painter]

Friend of mine bounced her car off a guard rail in the snow and now the state seams to think she did $2000 worth of damage to it. First time i have ever heard of the state actually doing this. In fact over the summer another friend jammed his Audi UNDER a GR @ 100mph sideways and noone ever said anything beyond "are you ok" and "yea ... ill rewrite that report so it includes a dead deer"

3 things that bother me about this are:

a) she drives a 95 mustang v6, not a mack truck
b) 2 more people piled into the same guard rail right behind her
c) they sent my friend the ENTIRE BILL

The first thing I thought of when I read this was ,must be in N.Y. And sure enough..........I'll bet they sent EVERYONE the entire bill..,Thats the kind of people that are running / ruining your state,I left,NY years ago...sounds a lot like court costs for tickets... bunch a bull...

 

[Frisco]

I wasn't going to reply to this comment, but on further consideration I decided I would. Perhaps for some clarification of my original post on this subject.

You are right to a point, if there was only one car involved, it is pretty much a given, you or your insurance company, if they cover you, would pay. In this case, two other cars hit the guard rail, no tickets were given as far as we were told, and no blame, but only one person got the bill for the whole thing, when no blame is given I would think that all that hit the guard rail would share in paying the bill.

It's not a matter of blame but rather personal responsibility. MAYBE, all involved should bear the costs.

Here is a hypothetical scenario.

One car loses traction on ice and slams into the guard rail. They have full responsibility. Second car sees what has occurred with the first car and slams on their brakes to avoid hitting the first car. In doing so they skid into the guard rail. Responsibility? Maybe. Perhaps they were traveling too fast or too close for the conditions. Third or more cars also lose control and slide into the guard rail or even another vehicle. Once again the responsibility may be theirs as well.

Local LEO's decide NOT to issue any traffic violations because of the existing road conditions.

Who gets the bill? City, County, State whoever can probably send everyone involved the bill. Laws vary from area to area.

With that said it pays to read all the posts, if you did you might not have said what you did, or you missed something, understood. If you didn't read all that was posted, you jumped in without all the facts, I don't know if we have all the facts, and if they are right or not.

I always read ALL the posts whenever I post a reply. As you posted, I/we don't know if we have all the facts. It still doesn't absolve anyone from taking personal responsibility.

Another hypothetical.

I'm driving down your road. It is winter and the road is very icy. I am going slow and trying not to slide or get into a skid. I really shouldn't be out in this weather but I am for whatever reason. I begin to slide and run over your mailbox. Your mailbox is probably installed alongside the road in the state right of way. Who is to blame? The state because it's their right of way? NO! You, because it's your mailbox? NO! The US Postal Service because they required the box be installed where it was? NO! Perhaps it is the Meteorologist who didn't forecast the cold weather? NOT! Ultimately, the blame and the responsibility is totally mine. I chose to drive on your road in bad weather and icy roads. I allowed my vehicle to skid into your mailbox. It is my responsibility to repair/replace it.

Frisco I hope were cool. :thumbup:

Bob

Not a problem. Just my take at the original post. By the way, you are very fortunate because you are only about 186 miles away from one of my all time favorite places to visit. I love the BWCAW anytime of the year. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[pepi]

I know that in Ga, you take out city fixtures you will pay for it. They will issue a ticket, so it is not a fact you would have to pay. It would be treated as a traffic violation, and like any other ticket it can be a guilty or not. So it seems to me most states or cities will have something like this on the books, or soon to be considering the times we live in.
Mail boxes, that is why one has home owner insurance. Also if one builds a mailbox that a bulldozer could not flatten, guess what you could be sued big time and pay for the damage it caused to the car that hit it. That one is like a guy robs you and fall down leaving, then sues the home owner for medical .............. we sure do need more lawyers don't we.

 

[1ownerT]

I don't follow the logic posted here about this.

In my opinion, IF you are driving a vehicle and you then hit a guard rail, sign, telephone pole, another vehicle, animal or another person, you are responsible. This would be so whether it was an "accident", bad weather conditions, etc. or caused by wreckless driving, speeding, DUI, whatever.

How can it be someones else's (taxpayers) responsibility to clean up or pay for your mess. While the initial installation and general maintenance may be paid for by taxpayers, replacement or repair caused by another individuals "accident" should be that individuals responsibility.

If that individual doesn't have insurance to cover the costs, then it should come out of their pocket.

The taxpayers are paying too much right now for other folks irresponsibility already.

This, I agree with.

 

[35terraplane]

guard rail

I wasn't going to reply to this comment, but on further consideration I decided I would. Perhaps for some clarification of my original post on this subject.



It's not a matter of blame but rather personal responsibility. MAYBE, all involved should bear the costs.

Here is a hypothetical scenario.

One car loses traction on ice and slams into the guard rail. They have full responsibility. Second car sees what has occurred with the first car and slams on their brakes to avoid hitting the first car. In doing so they skid into the guard rail. Responsibility? Maybe. Perhaps they were traveling too fast or too close for the conditions. Third or more cars also lose control and slide into the guard rail or even another vehicle. Once again the responsibility may be theirs as well.

Local LEO's decide NOT to issue any traffic violations because of the existing road conditions.

Who gets the bill? City, County, State whoever can probably send everyone involved the bill. Laws vary from area to area.




I always read ALL the posts whenever I post a reply. As you posted, I/we don't know if we have all the facts. It still doesn't absolve anyone from taking personal responsibility.

Another hypothetical.

I'm driving down your road. It is winter and the road is very icy. I am going slow and trying not to slide or get into a skid. I really shouldn't be out in this weather but I am for whatever reason. I begin to slide and run over your mailbox. Your mailbox is probably installed alongside the road in the state right of way. Who is to blame? The state because it's their right of way? NO! You, because it's your mailbox? NO! The US Postal Service because they required the box be installed where it was? NO! Perhaps it is the Meteorologist who didn't forecast the cold weather? NOT! Ultimately, the blame and the responsibility is totally mine. I chose to drive on your road in bad weather and icy roads. I allowed my vehicle to skid into your mailbox. It is my responsibility to repair/replace it.




Not a problem. Just my take at the original post. By the way, you are very fortunate because you are only about 186 miles away from one of my all time favorite places to visit. I love the BWCAW anytime of the year. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I agree all should bear in the cost, but we don't know if we have the whole story. I think I read your first post wrong. :smash:

Yes the BWCA is a great place to go. :thumbup:

I wish the snow plow drivers felt the same as you on the mail boxes. the more snow, the more they knock over, I get out there with the Bobcat and clear around mine so the big pile of snow on the blade doesn't hit it when they plow. ain: :sweat: This time of year you see all kinds of mail boxes sitting in buckets on a 4 x 4 post. :mwink:

Bob

 

[mike the painter]

The roads and equipment belong to everybody our taxes should pay when things go wrorg,an accident is an accident,whether its a flood or freezing rain, No one person should ever be responsible if something is damaged using Public roads... thats what we have insurance for...Should we stop people on welfare that dont work from using them???? since they dont pay taxes .....no theyre public roads

 

[DoubleVision]

How it works out as mentioned because states are broke they try and dream up every new way possible to tag somebody with the cost of repairs.
What the kicker is, you go and visit some people involved in the politics of it all and ask them who come up with such a stupid idea they`ll tell you who did so but if they thought it was a good idea they get offended because it was called stupid.
Down here in my state, if you got a wreckless driving ticket you could pay it out of court and go on your way, somewhere in the mid 90`s somebody come up with the great idea you have to go to court, just so they can tag you with court costs. Politicians don`t think like we do, and I`ve proudly told several of them they`re screwed, they didn`t like that either but oh well.
The high school I went to, I`ve never been proud of it, the principle, who was a championship coach knew a few people and greased the skids to become principle in the mid 70`s. He`s been caught scamming countless times yet his buddy the superintendant keeps the heat off his back. His house looks like a castle and he makes it obvious he`s very wealthy. He had the football field renamed after himself. Several years ago he got the brilliant idea to start charging people to park when they went to the football games.
2 dollars just to park. When that lady told me that I said "My tax dollars and everyone else who works who lives out here paid for this school, you can`t charge us to park, that`s illegal" of course he says "it`s going to the band" and it`s not, it`s lining his pocket.
. As for paying for a guard rail, I would keep appealing until I won the case. Mother nature caused the snow and ice, so I would tell them to bill mother nature.

 

[1ownerT]

Down here in my state, if you got a wreckless driving ticket you could pay it out of court and go on your way, somewhere in the mid 90`s somebody come up with the great idea you have to go to court, just so they can tag you with court costs.

Here you get tagged with the court cost, if you have to appear or not.

 

[Frisco]

Mail boxes, that is why one has home owner insurance. Also if one builds a mailbox that a bulldozer could not flatten, guess what you could be sued big time and pay for the damage it caused to the car that hit it. That one is like a guy robs you and fall down leaving, then sues the home owner for medical .............. we sure do need more lawyers don't we.

Homeowners insurance and lawyers...

This is actually a sub subject of the original thread. In most (if not all states) the state insurance commission regulates how an insurance company charges and operates in that state. Most insurance company's will drop the policy holder if they have three or more claims within a three year period. Homewner's and auto both. Submitting a small claim for a mailbox probably will not be paid because it is less than the deductible, but it will count as one strike against the total allowable claims for the three year period. Any claim may also cause an increase in premiums. Conclusion is simple. You should have insurance, but don't use it except for major claims. Catch 22.

Lawyers, don't you just love 'em? Almost a 'must have' in many legal situations. Back office deals are common. Deals in the hallways of justice are almost the rule. This is common for any type of legal proceedings (civil or criminal) that are being contested. Justice often is how much is being paid and on which side. There should be a law against such practices. Actually, there probably is, it just isn't enforced. Lawyers love loopholes and since many legislatures are lawyers, why is anyone surprised when they pass legislation full of ways to bypass the system?

How about this? Pass legislation where the city, county and state MUST have their own insurance to pay for any damage done to government property. How much will that cost the taxpayers?

Bottom line...we pay for it all. Through insurance premiums, taxes and any other miscellaneous fees.

 

[pepi]

The roads and equipment belong to everybody our taxes should pay when things go wrorg,an accident is an accident,whether its a flood or freezing rain, No one person should ever be responsible if something is damaged using Public roads... thats what we have insurance for...Should we stop people on welfare that dont work from using them???? since they dont pay taxes .....no theyre public roads

Well true enough, but I must disagree with part of the statement, how about some clown driving on the road on the rim. The jerk that drags a trailer, other parts of his car just cutting the surface to pieces. He should pay, also the moron running from the police that tears up all kinds of property, public and privet.

I know of two events one a guy was hit and pushed into a road sign, he did not have to pay for the sign. The other ran a light got hit and wiped out a sign, he got a ticket for the light and the sign. Not sure how that came out, but I do know the fine for the red light was 150 and the sign was 850.

So it goes both ways, yes there are accidents but not all are, some are lack of drivers, care as in I do not own it so who gives a flying, intelligence, texting, and cell phone mouth diarrhea. These drivers need to pay big time..

"Should we stop people on welfare that dont work from using them????"
YES!! if they cannot feed themselves I am sure they cannot afford a car, let them take a bus. That may actually motivate them to work, not holding my breath to be clear.

 

[AntnyL]

I dunno. I'm of the opinion that if I damage something, I'm responsible for it's repair. It's all about taking responsibility for oneself, and not looking for a bail-out.

 

[timothale]

pay again

I was working in Calif and a guy's wife was involved in an accident with a highway construction truck. The driver ran off the road and pulled the handle on the belly dumper, the truck driver said he needed to dump instead of tipping over. The guy got a bill and had to pay for the gravel. Another guy at work said he needed some gravel for his place so the two guys went out and just got a pickup loaded when a highway patrol showed up and wanted to know what they were doing. they didn't have the receipt so the CHP stood there and watched them shovel it out.. we told the guy to forget about his gravel or he would next get a bill for cleaning up the mess... anything the gov't can do to get more of our money ...Someday we will have to pay China for all the money they are loaning our government ! ! !

 

[35terraplane]

pay for a guard rail

I dunno. I'm of the opinion that if I damage something, I'm responsible for it's repair. It's all about taking responsibility for oneself, and not looking for a bail-out.

That would be true to a point. If you were forced to hit a road sign or guard rail, because someone forced you off the road, would you jump up and pay it then, I wouldn't.

If people think there taxes cover it, hell most states can't pay for the major stuff let alone sign replacement. ain:
And I think it was Centerline that said most Insurance won't cover guard rails.

But as this thread started three people hit a guard rail, no tickets were given and no blame, but only one got the bill, is that right. :nono: :nono:

Some of this I got from a post from Frisco :thumbup:

Bob

 

[35terraplane]

pay for a guard rail

I was working in Calif and a guy's wife was involved in an accident with a highway construction truck. The driver ran off the road and pulled the handle on the belly dumper, the truck driver said he needed to dump instead of tipping over. The guy got a bill and had to pay for the gravel. Another guy at work said he needed some gravel for his place so the two guys went out and just got a pickup loaded when a highway patrol showed up and wanted to know what they were doing. they didn't have the receipt so the CHP stood there and watched them shovel it out.. we told the guy to forget about his gravel or he would next get a bill for cleaning up the mess... anything the gov't can do to get more of our money ...Someday we will have to pay China for all the money they are loaning our government ! ! !

Just because the truck dumped it's load, does't give the guy the right to come back and help himself. In most peoples eyes that would be stealing, that gravel belong to everyone in the state.

If you were having gravel delivered to your house, and because you were not going to be home when it came, you had to prepay, and the truck tip over on a curve by your house. Would you want people to help themselves, I don't think so.

Your right anything the Government can do to get more money from us they will. But what do you want to give up, so they don't. Up here they cut back on plowing the roads or putting sand down, mostly on the back roads, by doing this they are causing more people hitting poles, guard rails, signs, which will cost more, if your state pays for it, it comes out of your taxes, so now because they don't have the money, they send you the bill, catch 22.
We have to start getting a hold of these people, both state and federal, I vote for who I think will do a good job, but I will vote the other way if they don't, that's where all this BS starts, and we have to make sure they know it. Get the loop holes shut for the rich, and these big companies.

There is a lot for us to do so those guard rails get fixed, along with the schools, and our services we pay for. Done with rant.

Bob

 

[AntnyL]

That would be true to a point. If you were forced to hit a road sign or guard rail, because someone forced you off the road, would you jump up and pay it then, I wouldn't.

If people think there taxes cover it, hell most states can't pay for the major stuff let alone sign replacement. ain:
And I think it was Centerline that said most Insurance won't cover guard rails.

But as this thread started three people hit a guard rail, no tickets were given and no blame, but only one got the bill, is that right. :nono: :nono:

Some of this I got from a post from Frisco :thumbup:

Bob

Yeah, I'm just speaking in generalities. If I damage something that belongs to someone else, I expect to pay to have it repaired.

Hey, maybe the State sent all three drivers a bill for the guardrail damages. LOL.

 

[oldschool hero]

Who would have thought this post would have created such a long thread?
All I know is that here in South Carolina, You break it, you buy it.Been that way since I been driving.1966 imp: