With cylinder bore of 4.310", stroke of 4.250", combustion chamber volume of 119cc's, gasket number Fel-Pro 1017-1 (available at Jegs) and zero deck, here is the pop-up you will need on the piston crown to achieve the static compression ratio shown.........
16- 9.97:1
17- 10.04:1
18- 10.13:1
19- 10.21:1
20- 10.29:1
21- 10.38:1
22- 10.47:1
23- 10.56:1
ZERO DECK MANDATORY.....squish/quench will be 0.039".
Use pistons with the tallest compression height you can find to prevent over-cutting the block decks and messing up the alignment of the intake manifold to head ports................. INTAKE MANIFOLD PORTS AND CYLINDER HEAD PORTS MUST BE PARALLEL IN X AND Y..........ASSUME NOTHING.

 

The rotating assembly im getting has raised height pistons so the deck doesn't need cut. Also, going for the 20cc dome to get low mid 10/1 compression. My main bolts show delivery tomorrow, so get them to the shop and see what I've got.

 

The rotating assembly im getting has raised height pistons so the deck doesn't need cut.

You came on here looking for help, so either listen up or I'm outta here and will let you argue with someone else.

 

I’m not arguing, just letting you know the info. Sorry if it came across that way.

 

I'm an old guy who is set in his ways. I have a lot of knowledge to pass on to someone like you, but please don't tell me that the block does not need to be decked. If you had said something like "why does the block need to be decked?", then we would be off to the races with an explanation that could have taken me a while, because I tend to get into detail when I explain something to someone, just like I would want them to get into detail when explaining something to me.

 

Tech....the OP is in Kingsport, Tennessee, home of both Fred White(White's Performance & Machine) and Skip White.....Skip is the guy on Ebay selling the well equipped SCAT based stroker kits fitted with Wiseco pistons, that he has special ordered with .015" taller than standard compression heights.

Finally someone in the performance parts business is forward thinking.

I'm guessing that's where you are planning to get the kit from, Dfish1247??

 

Thank you Eric. I took that into consideration and unless there is a special piston that is not in the Wiseco catalog, then all stacks are 9.780" using a 6.385" rod and 1.270" piston. If there was a taller piston available at 1.285", the piston would still be 0.005" down in the bore, putting the squish/quench at 0.044". That would be acceptable if I were building it, while 0.059" would not be acceptable to me. The catalog, showing the 1.270" piston, further calls out zero deck at 9.780"

 

Yeah, they won't be cataloged by Wiseco, they are custom for Skip. They are +.010" compression height in the BBC kits, at 1.280" comp height.....so not quite as good as the .015" taller SBC stuff but still better than the average guy catalog part.

It's just another of the reasons I point folks to his kits when they come here looking for stroker kit suppliers. He is offering more features and solid brand names than all others at the same price points.

Looks like for the BBC that just going straight to a .010" deck cut for clean-up would get things set up pretty well with available gasket thicknesses.

Dfish1247, sounds like you've got a pretty decent grip on things so far.

 

I am going to use Skip White for the rotating assembly, have not found a better deal for the same parts. Plus if something isn't right, I'm in his office on someone's butt vs playing phone tag or being avoided. Shouldn't come to that. Talked to him yesterday hunting for main cap bolts and he seems trustworthy, little cooky, but trustworthy.

I'm having center street machine do the machine work, recommended by several circle track and drag guys around. They are also going to install the rotating assembly, the rest I can do myself.

I am hoping the block doesn't need a huge deck job, just a clean up and finish for the head gaskets. Really hope the block doesn't need any major surgery (sleeves,etc.) just a normal clean up and assemble. Even with the taller piston height, quench will still be yucky? Don't guess an mls gasket could recover some of that?

Anyway, after the block comes back to me, next steps are oil pan and timing cover. Best pan I can find is the moroso 20408 pan for a Chevelle with 4.25'' crank, reading around it has positive feedback.

Timing cover, I am going with a step nose cam so I can use the retaining plate vs a button, do I need a gen VI timing cover or will the mark IV cover work? Not a deal breaker either way, just have to use single roller chain with factory gen VI cover from what I understand.

This is where it'll come to a halt for a while(hopefully no more than a month) until I get the money saved up for heads, gaskets, and bolts. After that, I'll pick your brains on cam profiles and torque converters.


I should have worded my reply better, not personally knowing each other is a pain when trying to converse. Again, my bad and my apologies. Any info I get, I keep it around, has come in handy too many times to count.

 

I'm having center street machine do the machine work.
I am hoping the block doesn't need a huge deck job, just a clean up and finish for the head gaskets. Even with the taller piston height, quench will still be yucky? Don't guess an mls gasket could recover some of that?

To make the motor resistant to detonation on pump gas, the piston needs to be even with the deck with the piston at top dead center, not down in the hole. With the piston at zero deck, the thickness of the head gasket describes the squish/quench. Since we are looking for a squish/quench clearance of 0.035" to 0.045", the 0.039" thickness of the Fel-Pro 1017-1 head gasket defines the squish/quench perfectly. This is the gasket that is recommended by Airflow Research, manufacturers of aluminum heads.

Motors using iron heads can use steel shim gaskets,but aluminum heads will "fret" with shim gaskets, wearing away the aluminum material. So, you have to use a thicker composition gasket to allow some "cushion" for the aluminum material.

Your next assignment is to ask the supplier what the "stack" of the reciprocating assembly will be. This will be the sum of the crankshaft radius (2.125"), the connecting rod (6.385") and the compression height of the piston, which I'm guessing will be 1.270". (9.780" will require cutting the decks to zero (9.780" zero block deck height or no more than 0.005" piston deck height, 9.785" block deck height.)

 

I gotcha now, definitley don't want to blow a hole where it shouldn't be. I'll let you guys know what the machine shop says and go from there.

 

Here's a couple pictures of the block and the first of many deliveries from summit, main cap bolts, those are being taken to the machine shop in the morning.

On a brighter note, our washing machine took a dump and had to get a new one of those today, there went $437 out of the toy fund account. Guess I'll have to nab a couple extra overtimes for the oil pan and timing cover.

 

Got a call from the machine shop, block is gonna need bored. They are gonna try .060 on the worst hole and see, hopefully no more than that. Just thought I'd say.

 

Thanks for keeping us plugged in.

 

Depending on what they tell me afterwards, I may just have them sleeve that hole if it's rediculous what's going on.

 

While I'm waiting on the machine shop(hopefully be this week they tell me what I need to get a rotating assembly in.) I'm thinking instead of heads first, I go ahead and get cam and lifters, this will let me get an oil pan and timing cover on to seal the short block.

So, it looks like the moroso 20408 pan is what I need with the dimples in it for steering. For oil pump, I'm thinking the melling m77, any issues here? And I'll get the biggest pickup tube I can, couldn't hurt, right? How much gap between pickup and pan do I need, have plenty of play dough to set the gap.

What's a good timing cover that isn't rediculous $ and any issues with a gen VI timing set? More below on that.


Now for the fun part where fights break out,lol. I'll start with saying I'm going with a step nose cam so I can use the retaing plate and gen VI timing set, any issues with the Chevrolet performance kit(plate, bolts, single roller timing chain and sprockets.) I'm going to use short water pump and accessories so I'm not so tight on fan clearance. Using a lincoln MKVIII electric fan currently and will keep it, works awesome on the 455 Buick. So it should work on the 496.

Here we go, what would be the recommendation on a cam,hydraulic roller, nothing else. Compression should land around 10.4-1, give or a take a tenth. Car runs around 2400rpms at 60mph now, 3.08 rear gear, 215/65/15 tires, roughly 26" tall tire. Need vacuum for brakes is about the only hinderance I can think of from jurassic size lobes. I'm after performance first, idle sound is a distant afterthought, it's a bbc, it'll sound good anyway, lol. Oh, gonna use Brodix race rite oval port heads just as a reminder. Intake and carb, I'll pick your brains later.
Or, since I'm a 30 minute drive from Straub Technologies, just go to him and avoid the fight altogether.


I have seen the Howards lifters for $375ish a set and Morels are around $425ish a set, one better than the other or is it a wash? Don't even bother with the knockoff $160 crap lifters, not wasting my time on that.

Well, there's the skinny so far.

 

Got the call this morning, she'll be a 496, .060 over took care of it. Everything else staying standard size, just cleaned up. Ordered rotating assembly from skip white, said should take a week as I'm waiting my turn for balancing.

 

Well, got a call at 0700 this morning asking which flex plate I want and he would have it he rotating assembly balanced and rods sized by this afternoon. Got the 168 tooth flex plate btw.

Picked it up and dropped everything off at the machine shop, machinist wants the cam and lifters to set that up properly. So, ordered a Howard's p/n 122116-12 gen vi cam, plus gm performance parts timing set with retainer plate and will drop those off when they show up.

 

Here’s what made it home with me. Didn’t have time to snap anything of the rotating assembly.

 

Almost to the fun part. :thumbup:

 

Alright fellas, question time, but first.

Cam, lifters, and timing set will be dropped off in the morning, then the short block comes back to me.

Question #1, what oil pump should I use, my gut feeling is Melling m77, just standard volume and pressure. Oil pan will be moroso 20408 and pickup to match.

#2, what brand torque converter do you guys like? I want to buy one and be done.

Thanks in advance.

 

Wow, I had to go back and look up what that cam is...it's really mild, rpm range 1800-5600 and that's in a 454, in a 496 that's going to drop to 1500-5100 rpm.

Converter - Performance Automatic(PA), FTI, Freakshow Performance, Coan, Ultimate. I would guess around 2400 stall, and it'll be a tire shredder for sure at 496" with that cam.

Yeah, standard volume pump unless you have main and rod bearing clearances on the wide side(.003"+)

 

Didn't figure on that drastic a drop in rpm range, not the end of the world if it is. I did get a cast crank after all.


Thanks for the tc company recommendations, I'll check them out.

 

Melling 77 is fine with me. If you get a little itch, it comes with a "corvette spring" that adds almost 10psi. May need oil drippers in the valve covers for it. Still it's lower psi than their high pressure pump.

 

M77 is fine for this engine.
I like the cam for a driver, will have almost smooth idle. Get 1.8 rockers, the heads can make use of the extra lift.

 

I'll for sure be using baffled valve covers, oil is expensive enough without greasing the intake.

Good deal on the oil pump. I did buy the tougher driveshaft just in case, but that was more of a while I'm at it thing.

I'm not gonna drag race and AA dragster idle wasn't my concern at all for picking that cam, I like drivability and where will I spend most of my time, around 2000-3000rpms, and the Howard's fits right in there.

I'll have to behave for a while till the transmission is beefed up and I get the 9" installed, pretty sure the 8.2" 10 bolt will scatter if I floor it, even with 215/65/15's. Plan here is rebuild for 700hp(way overkill I know) the th400, and a 9" with 35 spline minimum axles and 1350 u joints. But, I'll just use the widest tires I can fit in the wheel wells, don't want to butcher the back end.

 

You can get a 275/60/15 under the back with a 8" wheel 4.5" backspace, 8.5" wheel 4.875" backspace, or 9" wheel 5.5" backspace.

 

I thought 15x8 5” backspace was what the A bodies took?

Anyway, looks like Monday at the earliest for the short block to be mine again. The timing chain in the set was loose(gm performance single row chain) so got a cloyes and all is well, just needs freezeplugs and paint then it’s mine again.

I have ordered what I think is the bulk of the big stuff. Edelbrock victor water pump, rpm air gap intake, race rite oval heads, Howard’s 1.7 rocker arms, Doug’s D322-R headers, moroso 20408 oil pan and pickup, m77 oil pump, Edelbrock timing cover, power master mini starter, and arp bolts to put this mess together. I will post pictures when they arrive.

Last but not least, the question box. Doug’s states to use factory big block motor mounts and stands, ecklers has the kit for $140, energy suspension has a kit plus frame bolts for $150, is it a wash between the two? Or can someone point me to the correct kit if neither of these are right? Thanks in advance.

 

Forgot to add, i forgot to ask which thickness head gasket to use, so that’ll be ordered when I get the motor

 

You will need a thick stainless steel rule, minimum 6" length, and a good set of feeler gauges. I use a magnetic base and dial indicator to find absolute top dead center of each piston, but if you take your time and experiment with the rule and feeler gauges, you can get the piston dead nuts at TDC. I like to have the flywheel/flexplate bolted onto the crank and use a 24" long heavy-duty screwdriver that I call Dirty Harry to engage in the teeth of the plate and wedge against the bolts that hold the motor to the stand, in order to turn the crank slowly as I check and re-check for TDC. This prevents using the damper retaining bolt to turn the crank, which can loosen the bolt if you have the damper installed and have to back up the crank.

Stand your rule on edge and span the piston in line with the wrist pin to prevent rocking the piston on the pin and getting an erroneous reading. Use a felt tip permanent marker to write your finding on the piston crown so that you can choose a gasket that will give you the clearance you want on the tightest piston. It is possible that you will find a variance of around 0.005" from the front to the back of the block. I hope the range of clearance is smaller than that, but all you can hope for is that they will all fall into a range that will allow you to choose a composition head gasket that will put your squish/quench somewhere between 0.035" and 0.045".

Doing this procedure according to the firing order will shorten the time required. Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. So, if #3 is very close to TDC when you start, you would go 3-6-5-7-2-1-8-4 for instance. That way will require only 2 full turns of the crank.
.

 

15" x 8" w/5" backspace fits, the same rim with 4.5" backspace is the minimum backspace needed to get the outer edge of the tire under the quarter panel wheelhouse outer lip....A 4" backspace 8" wide wheel won't fit without jacking the rear up over the tire at ride height. Example is all the 3-3/4" backspace 8-8.5" aftermarket wheels of the 1970's needing the HiJacker look to fit.

5" backspace just gets it under a little farther, IDK maybe that is necessary with the flatter rear quarter shape of the early Buick and Olds A-body??…. compared to the more common Chevelle or GTO/LeMans/Tempest I'm familiar with?

You'll need factory BBC Chevelle motor mounts and frame stands....Factory Buick Big Block stands won't work for your swap. Have to be '65-67 type too, the '68-72 are different on the frame stand half. Oil pan to crossmember clearance may be a tight situation too.