What would I do?
I surely would not give him another shot at screwing things up for me. I'd buy a ring filer and do them myself......
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/805...RDLARIsAKT6fXwPBBYpPjgjERLY8ajOkaQel729mvKYoNoshWYn8Ysz0VUQK0jfhngaAsqZEALw_wcB
Carefully de-burr all corners and sharp edges and wash in hot water with detergent before oiling and assembly. I like a piece of 320/400 grit wet/dry paper glued to a popsicle stick. And by the way, a little loose is a whole lot better than a little tight. You won't lose as much compression as you might think. Look up some technical articles and find out for yourself.

"If I would have blindly taken his advice and just assembled the engine I would have had broken ring lands in no time, correct?". Yes.
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Ouch, good thing you looked. I'd start with the shop that was supposed to do it and see what they say. In this age of mass and instant communication I'd say their reputation is at stake.

Bogie

 

now do you trust the rest of the work he did?

 

And one other thought.....current thinking puts some extra width on the second ring gap to prevent ring flutter......
And another.....if he bored the mains, check closely for timing chain slack. There are very slightly shorter chains provided for such motors if they need less slack in the chain (because the crank is now closer to the cam)........

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"Trust, but verify" has served me well. Check with the ring mfg to make sure those 2nd rings are correct. Theres a small chance they were misboxed. TechInspector is correct in the timing chain aspect, in fact it was discussed here recently. Ive done the file fit with an actual fine-tooth file, and with the gizmo TI posted...BUY THE GIZMO. Seriously.
And yes, installing those rings without proper fitting would have been catastrophic.

Keep us posted please

 

I'm quite confident that the rings were not packaged incorrectly.
They have TS 4.040 stamped on them. I do have a 4.040" bore.

I called the machine shop in question today and explained the situation in detail. Their response was to say

"Oh, well okay, checking piston ring gap is part of engine building, bring everything back down here and we will file the rings and install them on the pistons for you."

I reminded him that he had volunteered to install the un filed rings on the pistons for me when I originally paid him and picked up the engine and that he had instructed me to assemble the engine with the rings un-filed. I asked him to acknowledge that if I had done what he said it would have ruined my engine.

He said " yeah that would have been bad, probably would have broken a ring, its no big deal, just bring it down here and I will file the rings for you, its easy. But I wont be there Monday or Tuesday so you will need to talk to someone else"

I told him I just wanted him to be aware of what he had done and hung up the phone. He made no attempt at apologizing and acted like the whole thing is no big deal. Its a big deal to me, this is a lot of money in my world!

So I'll be file fitting these rings on my own.

Since they were totally up apologetic and took several months to still not do what I asked of them Ill attach their name to this story.

Shacklett Auto Machine
Nashville Tennessee
I was working with John. Who apparently runs the place. I think he is the owner or part owner but not sure about that.

The rest of the work he did for me appears to be good. I hope.

 

How do I verify the timing chain length? Just install a stock length one and see if its sloppy or not?

The machine shop has assured me that the way they machine the crank journals will not effect timing chain length. I did ask them about that. But at this point who knows if he is correct or not.

 

One cannot machine the crank main journals (crank anyway) off center so no need to worry about that.
It's the block bores you need to worry about. The proper way is to remove the cap and take material off of it, then bore/hone the block in the center line using the cam tunnel for reference. Honestly, for a street car, just use a quality stock length chain and don't worry about it. It's not gonna make enough difference you ever know it.

 

Sometimes, doing that procedure will effect the concentricity of the bellhousing : crank pilot bore. This is important for stickshift guys; automatic guys not so much.

I think you're ok, he just sounds like a machinist who prefers to do the assembly work (more billable hours) rather than serve the home hobbyist. I'd NEVER install, or tell someone else to install, rings right out of the box. Thats compounded by lack of knowledge on, or tools for HOW to install them. Ive watched guys do it 'old school' with bare hands and break rings. We also know here, that even GM assembled engines with the rings installed in the wrong orientation (creating an oil-hungry pig). So putting your customer in a position to be successful should be important.

So much for "service after the sale" with your machine shop. I think you'll be just fine. Feel free to ask assembly questions. David Vizard has a good book on assembling SBC's if you'd like some references. Don't forget to stagger your piston ring gaps.

 

I'm puzzled why a -40 set would be file fits.
Normally the file fits would be a -45 part number.
You have to pay the ring guy extra to fit the gaps to a 4.040 bore which is why the fitted sets cost more. Most of the time I want more gap than a standard set so I buy them and file to fit, and save a few dollars. Plus, less filing.

 

Yeah I don't know. It is weird that all of the top rings were perfect at exactly .018 but all of the second rings were very close to .005 gap in my .040 bore.

I'm just glad I didn't just assemble the engine like I was told to do. I mean the guy even installed the rings on one piston for me while I stood there. To show me how he does it, while telling me that they didn't need to be filed. Crazy.

 

Always check everything!

 

In the modern era everything must be checked, very few people in factories that make the parts or local shops that sell parts and machining have much if any idea of what's going on, add to that most parts are actually made in China, India, or even deeper 3rd world countries, regardless of where the packaging says they came from.

I recently received a motorcycle part from a very well known American manufacturer with a label of a US flag on it. Reading it carefully in little letters it said 'Designed In' then in really big letters it said 'USA' then under this in super tiny letters that I had to get a magnifying glass to read it said 'Made In India'. Reading the box it came in that said in tiny letters 'Packaging' then in big letters 'Made In USA". So there is a lot of trickery going on out there intended to confuse consumers and probably regulators, if there are any remaining, as to where this stuff is really from.

Had you not checked clearances you would have had a huge problem. The ring as it heated would have butted ends, then distorted within its land, busted the land and itself carving up the bore wall in the process. Since the block is already forty over it is unlikely it could be saved as damn few modern blocks can be bored more and survive long in daily usage.

Techinspector is correct in that modern thought is to open the second ring gap a tad wider than the upper. With hotter running alloys in modern pistons this allows for improved venting between the top and second ring so both seal up better with their lands and the bore.

You also need to check the vertical ring to land (groove top or bottom) clearance which should be .001 to .003 inch and the ring depth to the back of the groove which should be .008 to .015 inch. The rings need vertical clearance to allow them to twist to make a seal with the groove as the piston moves up and down. They also need a breathing clearance to the back of the groove that allows them in to out movement so they track the cylinder wall. Ring movement is very complex which is something many builders don't appreciate.

Bogie

 

I went ahead and filed the secondary rings on my own. They are set a .020. The top rings were already good at .018 so I left them alone. The oil rings were already within spec according to the directions that came with them as well.

On with engine assembly... Thank you all for the advice as usual

 

I had a similar problem recently. Had an LS block bored .030" and bought rings from the machine shop that did the engine boring.. Got everything cleaned up and ready to put it together and the oil control backing rings were the WRONG size. I could not get the oil control rings to seat in the groove. I then picked up a caliper and began measuring and found exactly 16 OVER SIZE (too thick) oil control rings, and 16 correct size. I immediately called the machine shop and they said bring them back and let's look at them. I'm sure they thought I was screwing something up.. I took the rings back with the box and he measured them in front of me, and with a piston I brought with me I showed him the problem and he was like "damn man! that's crazy!". It was a sealed box that he handed me. I got a another box from him and we opened them up and they too were just like the first box! So, we kept opening boxes until we got a correct set. He said that the company they buy from is a nationally recognized company and he was shocked that they had at least 3 sets that were not correct. He said he would not sell another set without first opening up the boxes and measuring them himself.



This is one of those "buyer beware" moments for all of us. I can assure you-OP- had you assembled that motor with those rings without checking it would have blown up and you would have caught hell trying to prove it was their fault. You dodged a SERIOUS bullet. Kudos to you for checking. That instinct on your part just saved you a bunch of head-aches, and drama.

 

Just shoot me!

Well my trials and tribulations are not over!!! Im beyond frustrated.

See image for a look at one of my crank journals. Its got an obvious knick in it.
When I torqued down the rod on this journal the crank got really hard to turn over. I trashed the bearings for sure.

I guess I must have done this with one of the rod bolts? I find that hard to believe as I had the journal down away from the piston as far as possible when assembling and was going really slow and guiding the rod bolts with my fingers.

I have assembled several engines before in exactly the same manner and have never had this problem.

I don't believe this was here before I tried to install the pistons since I cleaned and re-lubed the journals twice before assembly. No way I would have missed this right?

Anyway what do I do now? Yank the crank back out and take it to another machine shop? Its already turned .010. Is it junk now?

I just want to throw a temper tantrum like a two year old at this point and see how high I can launch this ***** into the air with some tannerite! :evil:ain::spank:

 

what do you use to cover the rod bolts when sliding the pistons into the block? Fuel line? or something thinner?
I cannot tell by the picture but maybe the shop can sand polish the crank and be "OK" ish.

 

I didn't use anything over the rod bolts. Just went slow and guided them by hand like every other engine I've ever assembled. Of course this one bit me. Which makes me an idiot.

Everything I have been reading online suggest that I can just sand this down by hand with some 600 grit sandpaper and some oil until the high spot is gone and it no longer bites into the bearing material...? What say you?

I'm going to have to buy a new set of bearings anyway so I will have plenty of extra to test with. May give it a try.

 

I have filed one down with a small fine file and polished it up a bit with real fine wet sand paper using lube and strap type method. What you have to watch is sometimes metal will get displaced like an eyebrow around the nick/burr and you have to go a little further with it then you would initially think.... not ideal and it wasn't an engine that was going to be turned hard. Always cover the bolts. I use 2 pieces of fuel line about 10 inches long. No worries of the bolts or rod casting at the parting line making contact. One of those mistakes you only make once