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Ford 289 cam

2.8K views 15 replies 7 participants last post by  ericnova72  
#1 · (Edited)
Greetings, I have a project engine I am building for a 29 Ford roadster, I have a 1966 289, and need a realistic cam recommendation.


Engine is a original 1966 A code 289 California built, It has the thermoreactor heads with air ports blocked, 54.5 cc chambers, I have had the heads rebuild with Chevy 1.72 / 1.50 valves and summit .490 lift valve spring kit. Heads have been machined for screw in studs and they do have the integral rectangle pushrod guide holes. Early non rail rocker arms.

Factory cast iron 4 barrel intake with 1 inch spacer and Summit M08500vs (500 cfm carb)

Block is .030 with flat top 273AP30 pistons, moly rings, crank ground .010/.010.

I am considering a summit 3600 series cam, Flat tappet hyd, int .449/exh .473, 204/214 on 112 LSA.

Goal is a good running 289 with mild power increase and good driveability, trans is a C4 with 9" rear 3.25 gears and 29" tall tires.

Anyone have a simular combo and would this be a good cam for a 289 or?
 
#2 ·
Sounds like you have it sorted out pretty well already. With lower comp and wanting decent power for a good driver, you are in the ball park. Tires are pretty tall w that high of rear gear. Might want a slightly higher stall than a stock converter to get it rolling w a low torque engine. Like 2200-2500 maybe.

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#3 · (Edited)
One of the things we are on the alert for in this forum is PISTON COMPRESSION HEIGHT, the measured distance from the centerline of the wrist pin to the crown of the piston just above the top ring land. PISTON DECK HEIGHT, the measurement from the crown of the piston to the flat part of the block deck where the heads bolt on, added to the head gasket compressed thickness, describes the SQUISH/QUENCH thickness. Ideally, the motor will like a SQUISH/QUENCH dimension somewhere between 0.035" and 0.045". It must be thin enough to create a good squish of the air fuel mixture across the chamber, but not so thin as to allow the piston crown to crash into the underside of the cylinder head. There is a little flex in the crankshaft and a little stretch in the rods and pistons that close up the safety margin of 0.035" to 0.045" when the motor is at speed. Again, SQUISH/QUENCH is the PISTON DECK HEIGHT (measurement from the crown of the piston to the top of the cylinder bore with the piston at top dead center) added to the compressed thickness of the head gasket. Experience teaches us that the motor will be maximum detonation-resistant if we squeeze the fuel/air mixture between the piston crown and the underside of the cylinder head and blow it into the chamber area (and past the spark plug) as the piston rises in the bore, to break up large clumps of fuel and homogenize the mixture into a totally flammable mass instead of a hit and miss mass with large droplets interspersed in the mix.

Now, in determining the viability of the engine that we have to work with, we will begin with the block. A 289 Ford, from the parting line of the main bearing bore to the deck of the block where the heads bolt on measures 8.206". This is the BLOCK DECK HEIGHT, not to be confused with the PISTON DECK HEIGHT.

The parts that go into the block to make up the reciprocating assembly are the crankshaft, the connecting rods and the pistons. To make up our STACK of parts to fill the block, we will use the RADIUS of the crankshaft (1/2 the 2.870" stroke of a 289 crankshaft = 1.435"). To the 1.435" CRANK RADIUS, we will add the rod center to center length of 5.155" and the PISTON COMPRESSION HEIGHT, not to be confused with PISTON DECK HEIGHT, of 1.605"...…..so 1.435" + 5.155" + 1.605" = 8.195" STACK HEIGHT.

Now, if we are to fit the 8.195" STACK of parts into the 8.206" BLOCK DECK HEIGHT, we find that it will fit with 0.011" of space (PISTON DECK HEIGHT) left above the piston with the piston at top dead center. This 0.011" PISTON DECK HEIGHT added to the COMPRESSED GASKET THICKNESS is what describes the SQUISH/QUENCH thickness into which the air/fuel mixture is compressed with the piston at top dead center. In this particular example, if we used a gasket that would compress to 0.030" and added the 0.011" PISTON DECK HEIGHT to that, we would find a SQUISH/QUENCH figure for that combination at 0.041", solidly in the middle of the suggested 0.035" to 0.045" figures that are suggested by experience.

Now, in looking at the parts used in your build, we find that whoever chose parts for the STACK in your motor chose a piston with a reduced PISTON COMPRESSION HEIGHT of 1.585".
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-273ap30
This makes the piston 0.020" shorter than a stock piston. Normally, but not always, this is done so that the machine shop can take a 0.020" cut on the block decks to flatten them or cut off some damaged part of the block deck(s) and keep the same SQUISH/QUENCH. Sometimes though, these "rebuilder" pistons will be chosen on price only and the person choosing them will have no idea that there is any such thing as SQUISH/QUENCH to be considered in an engine build. When this is the case, and the block is not cut on the decks to restore the correct margin, SQUISH/QUENCH is out the window and the motor finds itself much more succeptible to detonation. In some cases however, even though the PISTON DECK HEIGHT is increased, the builder can use a thinner head gasket to restore the same SQUISH/QUENCH that the motor had before the piston change. It matters little how you arrive at the correct SQUISH/QUENCH, as long as you arrive.

With iron heads, any kind of gasket can be used, including steel shim gaskets. With aluminum heads, a more forgiving type of composition gasket must be used to prevent fretting, the wearing away of the aluminum material due to the difference of the growth characteristics between iron and aluminum. You are free to use any kind and any thickness of head gaskets due to using iron heads, but I don't know how you're going to determine the PISTON DECK HEIGHT or the SQUISH/QUENCH if the motor is assembled.

Don't expect too much from this motor, the heads are awful. I know, I've built a few of them. Normally you would know the static compression ratio before you would choose a cam, so that you could figure the dynamic compression ratio. The whole mess balances on the closing point of the intake valve.
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#4 ·
I noticed Summit has changed the numbers a little on this camshaft you will find it is a generic grind offered by several vendors. I have that Summit cam in my 302,it is based on the hydraulic Ford Motorsports cam with the same specs which Ford discontinued in their catalogs a while back all roller stuff now. Same specs used here: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...BRAjEiwAjqYhFq2Tnl9Gy_ytTVSqz6MdCyUs8pArtdlWpo6fOyFcJ1TZLVGG2mIuORoCrtoQAvD_BwE I think you will like it with your combo, low end and mid range is good and got even better with the Weiand Stealth intake added to the mix. order a can of ISKY cam lube and get generous with it for break in. Your heads are not much different from the 289 Hi-Po heads Ford Small Block Cylinder Heads, Valves and Valvetrain
 
#11 ·
I can recommend the cam listed here, mild street cam with close to 18" of vacuum at idle. Very little noticeable lope and good midrange, 2500-5000 rpm.

Probably 1HP/CI with that cam depending on the entire package and getting compression and quench right, ran this cam in a 289 with 10.5:1 compression and 0.039" quench similar heads and you can run any timing you want up to 16 degrees initial on 91 octane.

A 2400 rpm converter and some gears around 3.5-3.75:1 makes a good street engine combo for a street rod that doesn't guzzle fuel, engine is small enough an Autolite 2bbl in 350cfm flavor could probably get you close to the original 275HP rating of the original 289HP model with better driveability.

Seriously though, a set of heads is what you really need to wake these up, the heads are horrible even after grinding on them, AL aftermarket heads are like a 50-60Hp bolt on and worth every penny.
 
#6 ·
Tech Inspector: thank you for the information. The head gasket I am using is a Felpro composite type, I believe at compressed thickness will be .034 to .038. Once the short block is assembled, I will check the piston to deck clearance. I may have to go to a shim type gasket. What do you think of the cam choice? I have also thought of having Delta cams (I live about 100 miles from them) grind me a flat tappet solid with 440 int /450 exh lift, 214 /218 dur on a 110 LSA, 106 CL. I just want a nice driver with Nice street manners. 1000 to approx. 5000 RPM. I think I will wait on the cam until I get an accurate compression and quench calculation.
 
#7 ·
Measure the block deck height before you get the short block assembled. If the block needs to be cut, now is the time to do it, not after you have everything assembled and have to disassemble it to cut the block. Any shop that has a 12" dial caliper or electronic caliper can tell you the block deck height, then you just use a calculator to add up your stack of parts and you will know what to do before you begin assembling the short block.
 
#12 ·
289

I will use the heads I have, not the best but I am not building a screamer, just a good driver. I was wondering about the 500 CFM carb, Might be a tad large. I have a new in box Holley Economaster 450 but it is about 30 years old. Anyone remember those? Was even considering a Quadrajet from a early 305 chevy, it will work with a spacer/adapter. I really like Qjets, early ones from late 60's and early 70's. They are a simple rebuild and they really work great, at least in my experience. It is getting hard to find a 327 Qjet or a 305 non electronic carb.
 
#13 ·
I will use the heads I have, not the best but I am not building a screamer, just a good driver. I was wondering about the 500 CFM carb, Might be a tad large. I have a new in box Holley Economaster 450 but it is about 30 years old. Anyone remember those? Was even considering a Quadrajet from a early 305 chevy, it will work with a spacer/adapter. I really like Qjets, early ones from late 60's and early 70's. They are a simple rebuild and they really work great, at least in my experience. It is getting hard to find a 327 Qjet or a 305 non electronic carb.
The 500 CFM Summit will work great on your combo and produce great fuel mileage it is an advanced version of the Autolite 4100 with the tuning features of a Holley. But since you have the Economaster why not try it ? ;)
 
#14 ·
289

I am probably over thinking this build. The 500 CFM will probably work fine. So I have a update, My stock 289 heads are good condition, will work fine for this engine.

On Friday I drove to Spokane with a friend and bought a set of GT40P heads off an Craigslist ad. They were being sold by a Ford fanatic about 15 miles north of Spokane, I brought a friend with me to make sure I didn't get murdered. Just kidding, the seller appeared to be very upstanding and answered any questions I had. They are dirty but included rockers and head bolts for $200.00. I will go through these and save them for a 302 build. As I understand, they have weak springs from the factory so these will be replaced, guides checked and a valve grind at a minimum.

Where can I get a AFFORDABLE 12" caliper? I have several 6"" however a 12" would be great for things like checking pushrod length. Prefer a old style mechanical dial rather than electronic. Nothing wrong with electronic, I use them for reloading cartridges, but every time I pick them up the battery is dead.
 
#15 ·
289

I am probably over thinking this build. The 500 CFM will probably work fine. So I have a update, My stock 289 heads are good condition, will work fine for this engine.

On Friday I drove to Spokane with a friend and bought a set of GT40P heads off an Craigslist ad. They were being sold by a Ford fanatic about 15 miles north of Spokane, I brought a friend with me to make sure I didn't get murdered. Just kidding, the seller appeared to be very upstanding and answered any questions I had. They are dirty but included rockers and head bolts for $200.00. I will go through these and save them for a 302 build. As I understand, they have weak springs from the factory so these will be replaced, guides checked and a valve grind at a minimum.

Where can I get a AFFORDABLE 12" caliper? I have several 6"" however a 12" would be great for things like checking pushrod length. Prefer a old style mechanical dial rather than electronic. Nothing wrong with electronic, I use them for reloading cartridges, but every time I pick them up the battery is dead.
 
#16 ·
I bought my 8" digital off Ebay, both times. I wasn't after die makers .0005" or better precision and the cheap imported 8" get close enough to that it doesn't matter, if you need better precision you need to be using micrometers anyway.

I don't remember paying over $25 for either pair...a quick look shows a good number of dial 12" on there now in the $40-60 range new and used. If you want a name brand you'll often find good clean used there, from buy-outs and foreclosure sellers.

The 8" I have are basically the longer version of the import 6" that Harbor Freight sells(Pittsburg name IIRC) just with no name at all. The come with a spare battery, and have auto-off feature to conserve battery life, they still have the original battery in them 2+ years later.

They have improved battery usage a lot compared to these things from 15-20 years ago.