[Sanctifier]

I agree with the cooling aspect, I was only thinking of the mechanical aspects.

For not a lot of money why not put a few feet of copper fin tube , and add a fan if you wish, the best of both worlds.

p.s. You can find used fin tube relatively cheap at metal salvage and used appliance businesses.

Yup, good idea. Actually I'm going to try to take that one step further...

Install Air-cooled Aftercooler after the pump's 2nd stage...
and before the receiver inlet... just like bigger IR compressors etc.
"Dropping-out" as much moisture as possible before the receiver should lengthen its life too.

Pipe receiver outlet to Refrigerated Air-dryer inlet... and pipe dryer outlet to air-supply "closed double-loop" system.

Don't want to step on this thread any more than we have already; so I'll post a new thread later (with sample pix) on "Advice Please: DRY air supply needed!"

Thanks.

 

[Rambo_The_Dog]

Copper is best for cooling

Unless you need hard plumbed - dedicated connectors, I think for most average size shops a setup like mine doesn't take up much space, doesn't cost a lot in copper and with my shop being 22x40 the 50ft reel hose reaches every corner.

If I need more outlets - I'd probably plumb a manifold and hang another hose.

 

[amcginley]

At one time or another I’ve had shops set up with PVC, Iron and copper.

PVC, as many others have noted, can be very dangerous; the pipe is not designed to be used with air and has integrity issues with changes in temperature and any exposure to sunlight.

Iron was safe and secure but had several issues: it was a pain to install because we had to thread almost every joint and after about six months started to become a maintenance nightmare as the rust in the lines started causing issues with my machines. Even just using the blow guns was messy with all of the rusty spray going everywhere.

Copper is what I had in my last shop and overall was a good system; secure, safe and while not maintenance free (there were some electrolysis issues) it was a solid system. The only negative things about it were: it was very expensive! That copper’s not cheap and while easier than iron to install it still took a long time to sweat all the joints.

I built a new, and hopefully last, shop a couple years ago and used a new aluminum pipe system that i wish had been available back when i did my first shop. It has all the "pros" and none of the "cons" of every other system I’ve used. It is safe and secure, extremely easy to install (it took a helper and myself less than a day to install air completely throughout my 8000sqft shop), to date I’ve not had any maintenance or contamination issues, and best of all it was inexpensive - especially compared to copper!

If you want to see any pictures of my latest (last, if I have anything to say about it) shop let me know and I’ll shoot you a couple. Here is the place where I purchased my system http://www.speedsourceusa.com/prevost-air-systems.html - They were easy to work with and helped me out with the design layout a lot.

So to boil it all down I’d say no to PVC and Iron and yes to either Copper or Aluminum.

 

[Maulerman]

Another issue with PVC

I am in the compressor business. PVC doesn't react well with synthetic compressor oils. Usually not an issue in a garage environment but you never know what some people will put in their compressors. If they even think to change the oil at all.

 

[oldred]

Are you insinuating that PVC can be OK in some circumstances? I too was in the compressor business for over thirty years and I am well familiar with PVC, PVC should never, ever, under any circumstances be used for compressed air and anyone in the compressor business should know that! Yes PVC can certainly react to certain oils, it also reacts to UV, heat and aging! It is extremely sensitive to shock when under pressure and even a fairly light blow that would barely dent Copper could easily cause PVC piping to send potentially deadly shards across a shop, metal piping sometimes leaks PVC explodes! The dangers of PVC are well known and accidents have resulted from it's use, serious accidents causing it to be banned for the use of transporting compressed gases, including air, by both OSHA and MSHA years ago (unless buried or enclosed in steel conduit). PVC should never be used for air line and even if it was safe the poor cooling qualities make it a very poor choice.

 

[BLKSVT]

So y'all are against the PVC in a home 2 car garage? That you don't use the compressor every day and just need it at different times. I'm thinking of doing so I have air near the garage door and don't have to undo my 25ft hose every time.

 

[oldred]

So y'all are against the PVC in a home 2 car garage? That you don't use the compressor every day and just need it at different times. I'm thinking of doing so I have air near the garage door and don't have to undo my 25ft hose every time.

If you are considering PVC it could be a very bad mistake, PVC can get you hurt! When PVC ruptures it does so violently and sends razor sharp shards in all directions and many things can cause it to fail even just age. I think the problem is most people have no idea just how violently a PVC pipe rupture is, it will not just spring a leak like metal piping but instead it will shatter along a long length and the shrapnel it throws could cause serious harm. Besides even if it was safe it is a very bad choice for air supply line from the compressor due to it's poor cooling properties making it harder to remove moisture from the air. PVC can get you hurt and don't let anyone tell you it is safe, it's not! :nono:

 

[Maulerman]

Pvc

I have never, in the 26 years I have been in the compressor business, approved of PVC in a compressed air system. I was just adding another bullet into the gun aimed at those who think PVC is acceptable.

 

[oldred]

I have never, in the 26 years I have been in the compressor business, approved of PVC in a compressed air system. I was just adding another bullet into the gun aimed at those who think PVC is acceptable.

Sorry if I took it wrong but this has been a sensitive issue and some people still think PVC is ok. We had a couple of people here that removed their PVC systems and were very surprised at just how brittle and weak they had become, scary to think of all the PVC out there in home shops. These accidents do happen but like a lot of things that commonly get people hurt it's rarely reported unless it happens in a commercial setting so people hardly ever hear about it.

 

[Jon]

FYI I just put a bunch of new links into the Air Compressors category of the Hotrodders Knowledge Base. They were gathered from various Garage/Tools forums.

The OSHA pages warning against using PVC for transport of compressed air are included, as well as a bunch of other tech info.

Please let me know if there's anything else that should be included in that category, or if any currently-included links should be excluded. AFAIK, that category of the Knowledge Base is now the best resource on the web for air compressor info.

 

[hduff]

Here are three links you can consider for inclusion.
Keeping Your Compressor Quiet
http://route60garage.blogspot.com/2009/04/keeping-your-compressor-quiet.html
The Science Behind Piping Your Air Compressor
http://route60garage.blogspot.com/2009/04/science-behind-piping-your-air.html
WTF is a Franzinator?
http://route60garage.blogspot.com/2009/04/wtf-is-franzinator.html

 

[PapaG]

When every one is taking copper. Are you using soldered joints or compression joints?

 

[oldred]

Soldered joints.

 

[ogre]

amcginley dug up this old thread to advertise and will never be heard from again.
single posters have gotten so bad lately, i don't reply to any poster that doesn't have at least 5 posts.
register, post once and never to be heard from again... :spank:

well, unless it's in the intro self forum

 

[PapaG]

Like used in a house? Seen it used on TV? I have it done in a house but was not sure about holding 150 psi. I believe you all. Though I have seen a PVC shop last more than 15 years, not arguing for it, just a observation. It was in the roof cross beams in a Truck repair ship.. I worked there for 3 years. It was done by the owner I am sure.

 

[oldred]

Though I have seen a PVC shop last more than 15 years

I have it done in a house but was not sure about holding 150 psi

All that 15 years means is that it is far more likely to rupture now due to age! :nono: Make no mistake about it, PVC can and does rupture and it has caused some serious injuries!

If you are saying you are not sure about soldered Copper pipe holding 150 PSI I know of some 1/2" that is holding over 1700 PSI hydraulic pressure, DON'T use it for that however because just because those lines have held up under that pressure does not make it safe. If you were referring to PVC at 150 PSI then that is safe for water but NOT any kind of compressed gas! :nono: The pressure rating on PVC is what misleads people into thinking it is safe when it most certainly is not, 150 PSI fluid pressure is a hell of a lot different that 150 PSI air pressure. The difference is since fluids do not compress a failure will result simply in a leak (house plumbing does leak sometimes, think about it) but a compressed gas such as air will explode violently due to the expanding gases and it will carry with it razor sharp shards from the fractured pipe.

 

[PapaG]

No I was asking copper. I was not sure the pressure it would work with. I worked for T.I. and we used stainless and even stainless within stainless with a nitrogen in the outer pipe..... Some bad stuff that would catch fire or explode if it came into contact with air....Acids and deindorsed water, hydrofluoric acid.... Bad Stuff. special hoses and Teflon fittings. No copper there.

 

[oldred]

Well sure Copper is not permitted for several things, for example it can be extremely dangerous for Acetylene line but all we are dealing with here is just plain compressed air from shop compressors, for that Copper is an excellent choice. As far as handling the pressure that is of no concern at all with properly soldered joints and the pipe itself will withstand waaaay more pressure than any sane air system will have on it.

 

[Old Fool]

1/2" type L annealed copper when sweated with 95/5 solder has a pressure rating of approx. 400 psi.

Brazing drastically reduces it to approx. 100 psi

I doubt anyone on this board is going to braze fittings for an airline . Brazing is used a lot for med gas lines or clinical grade (lab) as lines. it is both expensive and time consuming.

95/5 and Oatey #5 is the way to go.

PVC explodes from the oil in the air destroying the cross linking of the polymers. Unless you buy PVC that is specifically rated for air DONT use it for air.

It is a game of Russian Roulette, you can get away with it for a while, but many have been maimed or killed using it. Its your life you are playing with being cheap.

OLYMPIA -- The Department of Labor and Industries warned today that plastic polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe cannot be used in compressed air piping systems without the risk of explosion.

When PVC piping explodes, plastic shrapnel pieces are thrown in all directions.

"We're seeing more incidents of explosive failure, and we're citing more employers for using PVC air system piping," said Paul Merrill, senior safety inspector in L&I's Spokane office.

"It's probably just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured in one of these explosions unless everyone pays more attention to the manufacturer's warnings," Merrill said.
Last year, a section of PVC pipe being used for compressed air exploded 27 feet above a warehouse floor. A fragment of the pipe flew 60 feet and embedded itself in a roll of paper. Fortunately, nobody was in the area at the time.
A PVC pipe explosion in a new plant in Selah broke an employee's nose and cut his face.

PVC piping buried 3 feet underground at a Yakima manufacturing plant exploded, opening up a crater approximately 4 feet deep by 3 feet across.

Only one type of plastic pipe has been approved for use with compressed air. That pipe, Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene (ABS), is marked on the pipe as approved for compressed air supply.

By law, employers must protect their workers by avoiding the use of unapproved PVC pipe in such systems. Existing compressed air systems which use PVC piping must be completely enclosed, buried or adequately guarded according to specifications approved by a professional consulting engineer.

NOTICE TO EMPLOYERS: If you have questions about the suitability of a material for air system piping, call Labor and Industries at the number listed above for a free consultation.

NOTICE TO EMPLOYEES: If you suspect that a pressurized PVC piping hazard exists, bring it to the attention of your employer. If you do not obtain satisfactory results, you may file a confidential complaint with the Department of Labor and Industries. Complaints are investigated promptly.


THE INDUSTRIAL COMMISSION OF ARIZONA
DIVISION OF OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY & HEALTH
P.O. BOX 19070
PHOENIX, ARIZONA 80005-9070

IF you have your heart set on using plastic piping for lord knows why, the only safe material to use is a SPECIALTY abs product. Hang on to your wallet its going to cost a lot more than copper,and won't dissipate the heat nearly as well, but you will have your plastic line.

http://www.aetnaplastics.com/products/d/DuraplusPipingSystem

 

[4chuck]

About a year ago I piped my shop, I used 1/2" "L" copper, 50/50 solder, now get this, lead-tinning flux.
Had about 20ft. of 3/8" soft copper that didn't have a job so I put it between the compresser pump and the tank. It looks like it don't belong but it does cool the air.