I found that a file card works a treat. The short, stiff bristles really dig out the old foam and don't damage the board at all.

 

I've always used a plastic stiff bristle scrub brush to clean a headliner before covering it. It's fast and clean.

 

Thanks again, Dan. The catalog is downloading as I type this...

Here's a link to the Auveco webpage - scroll down about half way, and there's a link to the catalog in PDF format (29MB)

http://www.auveco.com/index.htm

 

The majority of the christmas tree fasteners are black, but Au-Ve-Co fasteners specific to holding headliners and trim panels can be found in different colors, like tan, gray, dark blue, and dark gray. You need to look in section 19 of their catalog.

 

Good tip, Russ - I'll remember that. I'm going to the wrecking yard this weekend for a couple of other things. I'm going to look for another Metro with gray interior while I'm there and see if I can find a few of these buttons.

I take it the Auveco buttons are all black?

 

For the most part, engineers don't intend for us to disassemble an auto's interior. They are expecting that the car will be traded off and junked within three to five years and you'll be driving a new one before there is any need to redo anything.

But that's not the real world, so we have to deal with issues. The christmas trees are one of those things to deal with. They break. And if you reuse them too many times, they get scrubbed down to where they are no longer useable. It's nothing to fear, just buy new ones. Just like on GM A-pillars, the white clips with the two little wings. They always break off when taking out the trim. I used to work with kid gloves to save them to reuse, or glue broken ones back in. Now I just have a bin with 100 or so of the clips sitting there, and grab out four of them every time a GM comes through the door. Much faster and easier.

In some instances, you'll realize you have a specific color that is hard to get, or something unique that might delay you trying to replace it. Keep in mind that sun and heat does the most damage to plastic. So, you can always poke around in hidden areas for another of the same clip and be prepared to swap them out if one breaks. This happened recently on a Honda S2000 that got new carpet, top, seats, console, etc. etc. A couple of the Flame red trees right along the console broke. So I got up under the dash and pulled a couple out, replacing those with standard black. They are not seen, and the red ones went right in place out in the open where the color had to match.

 

Thank you, Dan. You've saved me a lot of grief again. I'll be ordering some tools tonight...

 

Mark: While it helps to use the right tool for the job, (see pics below) these christmas tree fasteners get more brittle the older they get. You can count on breaking at least some of them. You can get the right ones for the specific car you're working on from Au-Ve-Co online at http://www.perfectfit.com/13023/AuVeCo-Hardware.html

The tools are also available online: http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/vimdt6200.html and http://hobbytoolsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=403
among other places.

 

Thank you for your help, Russ. The reason I asked about what something like that would cost is because my wife mentioned what I was doing at her office, and now 3 people want headliners done.

Now I have yet another question - you all knew I would. Is there any trick to getting these little trim buttons (below) out without cracking/breaking them? I've tried everything from a flat tip screwdriver to a stiff putty knife, and in my Metro I still managed to break 3 of them. I don't mind it so much for myself, but if I'm going to do somebody else's car, I can't be hunting for new ones to replace the ones I broke. Any tips or pointers?

The headliner went back in perfectly, and looks fantastic. I'll put up some pics as soon as I get the sun visors done. I'm covering them in the same material so they'll match the headliner.

 

If you scheduled with me, it would cost you $149.00, provided there's no sunroof (factory roof with the moon cover is $49 more. Trimming an aftermarket sunroof is $29 extra). I provide a one year guarantee on my headliners. If you want the sunvisors redone to stock to match your shiny new headliner, it's an additional $79/pr. I get a lot of people that decide not to do the visors until they get the liner done, then they reschedule and have the visors done too.

Color doesn't matter. OEM style headliner material is OEM style.

 

Got the Metro headliner board out, cleaned, new fabric on, and it's ready to reinstall - that'll be next week (I'm doing it class, so I'm on their timetable.) So far I have $18, and a little less than 2 hours invested in it. If I were to take this to a shop to be done, about what would I expect to pay for a plain, gray recover job? It took 2 yards of standard, gray headliner material.

 

Looks nice. Did you freehand cut the Ram's head??

My nephew did the drew up the ram's head,I can't draw worth a crap.I leave the art work to others.

 

Looks nice. Did you freehand cut the Ram's head??

 

Unless the board is glued in like some Lincoln products, a professional shop should have one out, cleaned, covered and reinstalled in less than three hours or you're losing money. Dodge Rams and Dakotas are a two hour job at best. For a hobbyist or amateur, go see a professional.

Actually, just be very careful in the removal and cleaning. The worst part of it is getting all the clips to remove without breaking. There are tricks that you learn after about the hundredth board. I get a fair share of information seekers wanting to do their own headliner until they find out what's involved. Their next step is to schedule a time.

For the Dakota headliner, once it's out there is no problem cleaning them. Dodge uses a fibeglass coating on their boards that makes them very resilient to wire brushes. What a lot of people think with the wire brush is that you have to run it all-out, full speed to work. Wrong. Instead, set the drill to where it just turns (you're wanting torque, not horsepower on the drill). The slow scraping of the brush takes the foam off in short order with no damage to the board. The hard boards scrape clean right off. If you go too fast with the brush, it cuts down through the fiberglass layer making "mumps" on the board.

On the GM spray in boards (the layer on layer of soft insulation type material that is sprayed in originally and hardened), don't even try to completely preserve them. Even if you are careful and easy with the foam removal, what you have left is the original glue layer put on at the factory (sort of like a peel and stick stamp backing). That also needs to come off or the new glue layer will cause it to lift. I take the edge and peel that glue layer off as well. Yes, it does take a layer off the board, but it comes out smooth and the new foam sticks like it should. Best to use 1/4" or 3/16" foam to recover if you can find it. Most suppliers are just going with 1/8" anymore which is very aggravating.

Just about any board can be repaired. I've had T-Top headliners come out in five pieces and go back repaired. Use chipboard on the backside as support and repair. They come out nice and firm and ready for installation. But, more and more there are ABS boards available for the really bad ones. Not cheap, but a good replacement.

I did this headliner out of a 93 Dokota in 1hr 15min.,out cleaned and Ram head,and reinstalled in that time.

 

Thank you for the tips! I'll print this up and take it out with me to help me figure this out. I really appreciate it!

 

Just a typical removal. Sun visors out, console (if equipped) down. With a hatchback, you really don't even have to pull down the A-pillar covers, but you'll want to take one side of the B-pillar cover down (usually required unbolting that seat belt). At the back, near the hatch, remove the side panel on the SAME SIDE as the removed B-pillar cover. When I say remove, on a lot of cars that means just pop them loose up towards the top. There's really no reason to completely take it out of the car.

Once one side of the panels is loosened, visors and consoles are down, and the dome light is removed, the board will be loose. Slide it sideways towards the loosened side panels. THis lets the opposite side come out from behind the still attached side panels. Lower that side and slide the board back to the other side until it is laying free of the panels on both sides. Then pull it right out the back through the hatch. If the board seems too big to go through the hatch, lay the seats down and tip it at a 45 degree sideways and bring it out. If it's STILL too big, carefully push the sides together and let it bend slightly. There is give to a board and it won't be destroyed doing this if you're careful.

I ran into this a week or so ago with an H2 Hummer. The board took forever to just get loose because of weird sun visors and wiring snaking all through it. Then, bringing it out the back it was so huge compared to the opening. It was nearly doubled over coming through at some points. The same going back in. But when it was back in place, you never knew it had been bent. I had to special order 64" headliner for that one. It's the widest I"ve done so far.

On re-assembly, push the board back in through the hatch. Unless you're used to doing it, you might want some help inside the car to keep the front edge from catching. Once all the way in, lft up one side over the loosened panels and raise it up and to that side. The other side fits up over the still-attached panels and snugs in place.

The reason for not removing all the panels is because of what kind of car it is. When I do most cars (caddys, buicks, trucks) I'll just yank all the panels and pop the liner out to speed things up. But on something like a Metro, they were build as throwaway cars. Their panels are not designed to take the abuse of removal and reassembly, so don't tempt fate and only take loose what you have to.

 

I just picked up a Geo Metro for a work car, and this kind of project is in my future. The headliner is sagging bigtime in the back seat area, but it's creeping forward. Anyone have any tips or pointers for getting the board out of this little bugger? It's a 2-door with a hatchback.

 

I've not done the DA sander route, but I used to use Whiz Disc pads on the drill. Very similar, but they have a rough surface. Two things that annoyed me with that process was the gummy buildup on the outer lip as it worked through the foam/glue. And also, if you diverted your attention in the least, it never failed that the very flat disc would tilt just enough to slice right down into the board. Unless it's weak enough that requires using a hand brush, I stick with the wire wheel at slow speed.

 

An easy way to clean the old foam off the board is with a DA sander. You use it without any sandpaper, and the disk gets up under the old foam and peels it off. This method works on just about all of the board types. As with any method used on a headliner board, use caution and pay attention, but it works.

Schlock Rod

 

Unless the board is glued in like some Lincoln products, a professional shop should have one out, cleaned, covered and reinstalled in less than three hours or you're losing money. Dodge Rams and Dakotas are a two hour job at best. For a hobbyist or amateur, go see a professional.

Actually, just be very careful in the removal and cleaning. The worst part of it is getting all the clips to remove without breaking. There are tricks that you learn after about the hundredth board. I get a fair share of information seekers wanting to do their own headliner until they find out what's involved. Their next step is to schedule a time.

For the Dakota headliner, once it's out there is no problem cleaning them. Dodge uses a fibeglass coating on their boards that makes them very resilient to wire brushes. What a lot of people think with the wire brush is that you have to run it all-out, full speed to work. Wrong. Instead, set the drill to where it just turns (you're wanting torque, not horsepower on the drill). The slow scraping of the brush takes the foam off in short order with no damage to the board. The hard boards scrape clean right off. If you go too fast with the brush, it cuts down through the fiberglass layer making "mumps" on the board.

On the GM spray in boards (the layer on layer of soft insulation type material that is sprayed in originally and hardened), don't even try to completely preserve them. Even if you are careful and easy with the foam removal, what you have left is the original glue layer put on at the factory (sort of like a peel and stick stamp backing). That also needs to come off or the new glue layer will cause it to lift. I take the edge and peel that glue layer off as well. Yes, it does take a layer off the board, but it comes out smooth and the new foam sticks like it should. Best to use 1/4" or 3/16" foam to recover if you can find it. Most suppliers are just going with 1/8" anymore which is very aggravating.

Just about any board can be repaired. I've had T-Top headliners come out in five pieces and go back repaired. Use chipboard on the backside as support and repair. They come out nice and firm and ready for installation. But, more and more there are ABS boards available for the really bad ones. Not cheap, but a good replacement.

 

The 79 to 91 fullsize Fords plus the 80 to 96 trucks along with some mustangs and other fox bodies have hard boards,the 77 to 91 full size GMs and the 77 to 86 midsize also had hard boards but when they went to the FWDs they started using the soft boards that are now usually too bad to recover that willl look good without having to use material with 1/4 foam. I also have been seeing the hard boards in too bad of shape to recover. Jeff

 

All the one's I have ever seen,If you hit them with a wire wheel there would be nothing left. :nono:

 

I miss the boards from the late 70s to mid 80s Ford and GM products as you could used a wire wheel and if no visors or quarters needed to be done the headliner could be done in less then a hour,since the mid 80s most of the boards will fall apart and those era boards are worse now that they have some age to them. Jeff

 

I have ran across some that has given me trouble to get the foam off,You don't want to hit it with a wire wheel.You will be asking for trouble. :nono:

 

I have run into a few late 90s and early 2000s that the material has rotted but the foam still wants to stay on the board,on those it has taken me about a hour to get all the foam off. I had to do it by hand with no drill with a wire brush as the board was too easily destroyed and the foam was tough. Jeff