I have bought myself a new car... a Mustang and the poor baby needs a transplant.

How much power can the block from a 70's 460 engine take before cracking, exploding... well, before it goes to that place where all engines go in the end?

Assume forged H-beam rods and pistons.

How to get the power is not important, I'm curious about how much it can take before packing it in? :evil:

I can't give you an HP number -- but a lot, if you have a good crank in it.

 

firecat

A 74 460 can make over 530 HP and 580 ' lb of torque on a budjet build.
Shoe horning it in my be a different story.

 

My goal is +800bhp...
And I'm hoping a standard block can handle the power.

 

firecat343

If your looking for 800+ HP, I don't know if it would be cost effective
to build a older 460 for that much HP depending on use. Ford racing
has a 460 ci already built for around $9,000. If it was for me I think
I would start with that. But check around and see if any one else has
built one with that much HP and what application it was used for. You
would be asking allot from a stock engine to run that much HP.

 

The way I figure it, I could get a very streetable engine with 600-700hp N/A and then finish with some NOS when I need the extra power. (At the strip...)

That is if the block can hold that kind of power...

 

The only thing I really know about 460s is that they are NOT priority main oiling. The oil goes to the cam first. Its frustrating with that big bore and short stroke you wanna rev :evil: but you need to run some pretty stout oil pressure so that the mains get enough.

Folks have probably figured out a way around it, but most use a HP oil pump and pray that the oil filter doesn't blow

 

The way I figure it, I could get a very streetable engine with 600-700hp N/A and then finish with some NOS when I need the extra power. (At the strip...)

That is if the block can hold that kind of power...

You should be OK. Concentrate on bearings, lube, etc... and don't rev it too high. A stroker kit to get some of the power the old fashioned way would make sense... and the aftermarket heads are way better than anything you could do with old factory heads....

 

Ok, first things first though...
Now I have to get myself an engine, trannie and a rear axle.

And figure out what I have to do to the car. I've heard stories about cars twisting the chassis and ruining the body.

 

800?

i ran a early 2 bolt block in a mud bog s/mod car years ago with 12:1 comp, scj heads, tunnel ram,.720 solid flat tappet cam, 2 660center squirters, & a 200 hp nos plate under each carb. lost a few head gaskets but never hurt the block. gave a lot of blown big blocks fits. actual hp was never dynoed but it should have been EASILY over 800.

 

How bulletproof is a 460?

depends on what Gun your using. Do belive it won't hold up to Burt's ( From the Tremors series ) Anti Tank gun

seriously, I'd be leary of any stock block going past 500 hp. could be done, and people do it successfully, but if it decides to come apart, there goes $$$. get an aftermarket block that can handle the power for shure, in this case, the money it cost's for a new block, would be about the same for re- rebuilding a new 460 after you blew up the old 800 HP 1.

 

We have had a couple of stock block 460 motors that wheel HP'ed to the tune of 550 and the other over 600 on the chassis dyno. They also ran nitrous on top of that 200 to 300 shots. One car did low 10's the other was in the 9's. One with a set of Blue Thunder heads and the other with the Cobra Jet aluminum heads. Both sets of heads were fully ported and both cars ran solid rollers.

Both those motors were dead reliable. One in a Torino and the other in a Mustang.

We did a 900 HP big block Ford on the dyno a couple of years ago but I can't recall if that was a stock block or not.

 

IIRC there were some 4-bolt blocks in the 429 Series that would give you an edge.

I wouldn't hesitate to put a good seasoned block in the 800 range, especially with a good stroke setup & careful attention to detail.

Currently building a 460 (.020 over) & a stroker (535), which I plan to run approximately 425 hp & 650 hp respectively, but I build my stuff for grunt and torque, not revs. And dead reliable is a must.

I think the stroker could be where you're looking to be with a few changes to wring another 1500-2000 rpm out of it (single plane, knife edge, gyptol, different exhaust, roller valvetrain, etc).

 

I like the sound of this...
Maybe for once in my life I can buy an engine, mount it in the car, drive a little, tune it a little, drive it a little,...
Instead of pulling the engine and doing the monsterbuild all at once.

 

depends on what Gun your using. Do belive it won't hold up to Burt's ( From the Tremors series ) Anti Tank gun

seriously, I'd be leary of any stock block going past 500 hp. could be done, and people do it successfully, but if it decides to come apart, there goes $$$. get an aftermarket block that can handle the power for shure, in this case, the money it cost's for a new block, would be about the same for re- rebuilding a new 460 after you blew up the old 800 HP 1.

a new block $3000. used block $250. i have 2 351w's that are over 500hp. the cobra engine is just under 600. both are stock 2 bolt used blocks. and both get 150 hp of squeeze regularly. look thru some of the sand drag sites for my bronco-crazy horse or my cobra(the only one in existense in sand) called snakebite. both run 2 bolt blocks(stock) haven't hurt 1 yet!

 

firecat343

I did some checking with some builders and drag guys and there consensus
is forget the 460 ( or 429 ) and go small block stroker. That will cut the weight
by over 300 lbs. and not just sit there and not hook up. I have built several 429s in the 60s up to 1100 Hp but they had aspirated 671s on three and Hilborn
injection on the other, ( which blew up in my face ). These where oval cars
so there is a lot of difference. If you put that much weight in a stang, I think
you will most probably smoke the tires and over rev the big block. I think it
would be a waste of time and money to use and old 460 if you plan on racing
and 2-3 MPG on the street is also something to think about. Check out Ford
Racing, they will build an engine for about the same as it will cost to stick a 460
in it. There is a lot of work to get a 460 to work on the street/strip as others
have eluded to. Now if it was a truck on desert, that my be a different animal.

 

I did some checking with some builders and drag guys and there consensus
is forget the 460 ( or 429 ) and go small block stroker. That will cut the weight
by over 300 lbs. and not just sit there and not hook up. I have built several 429s in the 60s up to 1100 Hp but they had aspirated 671s on three and Hilborn
injection on the other, ( which blew up in my face ). These where oval cars
so there is a lot of difference. If you put that much weight in a stang, I think
you will most probably smoke the tires and over rev the big block. I think it
would be a waste of time and money to use and old 460 if you plan on racing
and 2-3 MPG on the street is also something to think about. Check out Ford
Racing, they will build an engine for about the same as it will cost to stick a 460
in it. There is a lot of work to get a 460 to work on the street/strip as others
have eluded to. Now if it was a truck on desert, that my be a different animal.

You have some interesting points there.
The weight will definately be an issue and if the weight distribution made it impossible to hook... well that would be close to disaster. Ok, you can always fix it with balast but that's kind of an emergency fix if all else fails.


2-3MPG? You must be kidding? I know they are gasguzzlers but that's just plain crazy? 12-13MPG would sound more realistic to me?

The problem with small engines are the need for a blower = the price skyrockets...

On the other hand... I'm always open to suggestions and since I havn't bouth the engine yet...
Please give me some practical exaples.
What kind of small block stroker are we talking about??

 

460 build

Just an added bit of info. If you are really content on a 460, ckeck out
this months Hot Rodding Mag. It has a complete 460 build.

Also I had last talked about gas mileage on the street. Someone does not
agree with 2-3 MPG, well that was a guesstament. I have been running 460s
for the last 20 years and the best MPG I have ever got was brand new at
16 MPG. Add all the power additives, larger fuel pump. larger CFM carb(s),
and running gear, I would say I wasn't to far off. I just upgraded the original
motor with a rebuild and I am pushing 8 MPG on a good day. I have another
I put in while I had the engine done, with the stock 4180C carb ( 650 ) I was
running about 4 MPG. So you can guess what a 750 + or 2 650s is going to run.
Not to mention probably cutting the floor for a C6 and running a Dyna 60 rear.
I have always beleaved in brut power vrs nos. NOS will cost you a rebuild every
couple of race week ends so be prepared. Go new small block and do the reseach, new engines metalergy is far supperior then an old 460 iron block. That said read the article in this issue.

 

A bullet-proof engine is a lot easier to build than an idiot-proof one.

tom

 

Just an added bit of info. If you are really content on a 460, ckeck out
this months Hot Rodding Mag. It has a complete 460 build.

Also I had last talked about gas mileage on the street. Someone does not
agree with 2-3 MPG, well that was a guesstament. I have been running 460s
for the last 20 years and the best MPG I have ever got was brand new at
16 MPG. Add all the power additives, larger fuel pump. larger CFM carb(s),
and running gear, I would say I wasn't to far off. I just upgraded the original
motor with a rebuild and I am pushing 8 MPG on a good day. I have another
I put in while I had the engine done, with the stock 4180C carb ( 650 ) I was
running about 4 MPG. So you can guess what a 750 + or 2 650s is going to run.

Holy effin christ...
you wern't kidding
Tell me, what kind of power did you get from that build?
4 MPG should make some serious power...

 

460 blues

I haven't dynoed it but based on experience about 240 0r so HP 280 torque

 

Why in gods green earth will 4MPG make gobs of power? I dyno almost 700 HP and pulled 19 on Power Tour in 2005.

No matter what the peak power if you build the engine to be even somewhat efficient at part load, dial in your fueling and spark, run an overdrive and reasonable rear gears you can get decent mileage. No matter what the engine it still will need to push the car with the same HP.

And no, nitrous will not cost you a rebuild every two weekends.

 

Sorry dude, but if you're only getting 280hp @ 4mpg, you're doing something seriously wrong.
For that kind of milage I would expect A LOT MORE.

 

460 blues

That's in a 20 year old heavy duty truck with 120000 miles on it. Be nice now
and you are correct in what you said about gearing and such if you don't mind
changing it for the strip.

Like I said earlier, I am getting 8+ on a new rebuild. When it breaks in it will
go up but your still talking in this case about a 87 Ford Lehman- Centurion
conversion that's rated at 8800 GVW. In a Mustang an old iron block is not
the way to go unless you want grunt power and torque. Look at the magizine
article and decide for your self. Most of 10 to 11 second Mustangs I see now
are short bocks with new metal that are set up for unleaded gas and NOS.
Enough said.

 

We've digressed a hair, but just gotta pitch in. My built to hell 462 Buick got 2 GALLONS TO THE MILE!

But, this was in a '68 Ford pickup with 38" tires and a full-time transfer case. And if you slapped the B&M & punched it, it'd smoke all 4 at 20 mph on pavement...

Fun stuff! If it was today's gas prices, my Jarhead salary wouldn't have gotten me to work & back...

 

Semper Fi

I guess some people like to mix apples and oranges?