Type & year of transmission would be helpful . did you replace the converter & flush the cooler ?

 

I’m with 2old2fast crud from the original failure was in the converter. A replacement trans always includes a new (rebuilt) converter from a reputable source. Cleaning the cooler lines and cooler always takes several cans of flush.

The 3/4 clutch and 2/4 band are probably the highest loaded parts in the trans their failure is very common. At this point you’re basically back at square 1 where you were with the original transmission’s failure.

Sorry for the painful news, there really is no inexpensive way around automatic transmission repair and replacement It has to include a converter and big time scrubbing the cooler and it’s lines if not replacement of these which of course includes replacing the radiator if you can’t get the cooler clean.

Bogie

Did you break open the filter to inspect inside it? That can be revealing.

Either you created a problem with the parts replacement months ago or you did not correct a problem that was already there by over looking it?

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Sorry. It’s a 97 4l60e. Didn’t replace converter. It always worked fine and the main purpose for the rebuild was because I lost reverse initially. Yes I flushed the lines.

 

Old convertor was probably full of sludge plus they are very difficult to clean . doesn't take much to stick a piston or block a passage. there are folks on here who'll be able to offer some advice .

 

I’m with 2old2fast crud from the original failure was in the converter. A replacement trans always includes a new (rebuilt) converter from a reputable source. Cleaning the cooler lines and cooler always takes several cans of flush.

The 3/4 clutch and 2/4 band are probably the highest loaded parts in the trans their failure is very common. At this point you’re basically back at square 1 where you were with the original transmission’s failure.

Sorry for the painful news, there really is no inexpensive way around automatic transmission repair and replacement It has to include a converter and big time scrubbing the cooler and it’s lines if not replacement of these which of course includes replacing the radiator if you can’t get the cooler clean.

Bogie

 

so the reason for the rebuild in the first place was because the reverse shell sheared and I lost reverse. All the other gears still worked. Why would a rebuild cause that crud to stop up the filter when it never clogged up before the rebuild? That’s what has me confused. If I never would have lost reverse. Then I wouldn’t have went along with rebuilding it because there didn’t seem to be any major problems.

 

The local trans guy includes a new convertor & flushes the cooler lines / bypasses the internal radiator cooler & installs an aftermarket cooler when he does any sort of HD trans rebuild / replacement .

 

It’s new crud from the failing 3/4 clutch and possibly the 2/4 band.

Bogie

 

Did you break open the filter to inspect inside it? That can be revealing.

Either you created a problem with the parts replacement months ago or you did not correct a problem that was already there by over looking it?

 

Okay so I was able to finally get in to the transmission. I’ll have pictures added but all clutches look in perfect condition even has the writing on the friction material that’s on it when they are brand new…except the forward clutch. It looked like it got straight up BBQ’d big time. Along with the steels. Pictures will show each side of each friction and steel.

the pump has a lot of debris in it, the small internal filter looks 95% clogged.

the valve body didn’t seem to have a lot of debris in it besides the one solenoid that is pictured below.

all the other clutch packs look perfect so I can only assume that debris, which seems to be in chunks is old material. But since none of the frictions looks torn up I figured it’s like some of you have said, that all that either came from the TC or Radiator.

but what I don’t get is after I changed the pan filter and refilled with fluid, why did I still have 1 and 2 and reverse if the forward clutch was burned up like it did? And even with all that debris in the small filter I still got strong engagement as soon as I put it in drive or reverse. It just wouldn’t shift into 3 and 4 when i tried to drive it.

all molded pistons and lip seals look good to. No tears, and they all fit snug.

when I removed the manifold pressure switch, two o-rings where deformed pretty bad as well. I’m not sure why, but maybe some debris push against them and made them unseat? I’m not sure.


I cannot post all pictures on this one post but I will post them in a separate post.

 

 

 

What do you guys think about all of this?

 

Ran super hot. Likely inadequate pressures. You need to carefully inspect the pump mating faces as warpage of the castings resulting in internal leaks is very common. An outward sign of this is oil venting from the breather tube though not always but if it’s constantly dribbling oil out the breather it is a for sure sign.

More likely than not the boogered O rings on the manifold pressure switch is an assembly error not deformation from crud under pressure.

Bogie

 

You had an issue with the forward clutch clearance on this rebuild. Those Borg Warner frictions are very consistent in my experience. This could be coincidence here, but I can't help thinking about that after seeing what transpired. The possibility of something being out of order on assembly would be in my mind. It may even be the majority of the debris you're seeing.

The forward clutch is a static apply (engagement first, throttle second) and has to be totally worn or down on pressure or both to manifest itself in drivability. I think that's why it took time to reveal itself. The 2-4 band and 3-4 clutch are dynamic apply (engagement under throttle/load). Wear and pressure loss start to show shift flares in drivability and reveal themselves progressively in most instances.

At this point, I don't know how much the left over debris or the newly created debris contributed. I'm sure it's a bit of both, but couldn't be certain what got the downward spiral happening first.

The initial sun shell failure you mentioned makes me think of a piece of information I picked up somewhere. Always, always install the wider sun gear bushing. It made sense to me that the narrow bushing is more prone to allow wobble there. That wobble seems like it would contribute to sun shell teeth being stripped and it would be harder on the planetary gears, too. If that's true it would be worthwhile to consider on the next rebuild.

 

So I agree there’s a possibility of a clearance issue. Now I did check, check again, and recheck the clearance with a feeler gauge when i was installing them. I certainly could have done it wrong each time.

But assuming that the clearance was right what else could have cause it to clearly spin while engaged the way it did? I’m assuming pressure loss because of the debris in the pump filter and the clogged pan filter that I replaced.

I really think most of the debris came from the old overrun clutch when i first torn it down. It was down to the metal on all the frictions and then some. I thought I flushed the radiator enough but i clearly didn’t.

but one thing that really confuses me…with the forward clutch in the condition it was in, why was I still able to get engagement in 1 and 2 but it wouldn’t shift into 3 and 4. Engagement was solid and strong. Almost as if the problem disappeared till I tried to drive it and it wouldn’t come out of 2nd. The 2-4 band and 3-4 clutch all look brand new

Could the pump provide enough pressure for 1 and 2, then while driving not provide enough for 3-4 since it was clogged with all that debris?

I figure if I completely lost the forward clutch I wouldn’t have even gotten engagement when I would shift into Drive.

 

Don’t use fried parts they had their life expectancy cooked out of them.

Bogie

 

yeah , those forward frictions should be replaced... if the steel plates are flat , they can be scuffed. Or just find a fulll clutch pack kit of the correct thickness.

 

Thanks guys! Waiting on parts to be delivered now. Going to get this thing back together soon.

I’m trying my best to not replace the radiator and just ensure that it is cleaned out completely. Besides the typical flush methods…does anyone have any tips ?

 

I’m trying my best to not replace the radiator and just ensure that it is cleaned out completely. Besides the typical flush methods…does anyone have any tips ?

I just saw that Crosley already posted about this...but bypass the in-radiator cooler and use a stand alone auxiliary cooler.

 

Back in the olde daze... we had various designs of flusher machines for oil coolers in radiators. Some had heat or pulsed or both. Some were simple Holley fuel pumps pushing mixture of solvent & trans oil.

One shop , all radiator coolers were plugged off & aux cooler added to 700r4 applications. No discussion , thats how it was done.

A friends shop in Yuma AZ had new coolers install in the radiator on all 700r4 apps.

👍

 

Back in the olde daze... we had various designs of flusher machines for oil coolers in radiators. Some had heat or pulsed or both. Some were simple Holley fuel pumps pushing mixture of solvent & trans oil.

One shop , all radiator coolers were plugged off & aux cooler added to 700r4 applications. No discussion , thats how it was done.

A friends shop in Yuma AZ had new coolers install in the radiator on all 700r4 apps.

👍

I just saw that Crosley already posted about this...but bypass the in-radiator cooler and use a stand alone auxiliary cooler.

Cooler line pressure is pretty low 20-30psi. I often run an external engine oil filter adapter with throw away filter on the return line of my builds.

Bogie

anyone ?

 

Cooler line pressure is pretty low 20-30psi. I often run an external engine oil filter adapter with throw away filter on the return line of my builds.

Bogie

 

Alright guys I got something else going on now. Not exactly sure what it is but the main reason I’m coming to this transmission thread first is because the first time I ever heard this “knocking” sound was when all the debri stopped up my Transmission. It was never there before. So before I call this an engine knock I wanted to make sure something in the transmission can’t knock just the same. A few things to note is the knock isn’t always there, it intermits. Sometimes it isn’t there at all. The transmission also performs perfect now….atleast it seems. I pulled my pontoon without all weekend and didn’t have any problems. Engine Oil pressure is perfect as will. This just appeared Saturday out of nowhere. I will Post some videos below for y’all to listen to.

 

I’m trying to upload a video but apparently they are too big.

 

May 2, 2023

youtube.com

 

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

I hope those will play for y’all

 

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Sounds a lot like a cracked or broken flexplate to me. Or loose converter bolts, or a single loose converter bolt head hitting the block edge every time around.
That would be the area i look at first.