What's Needed to Install a 700-R4 or 4L60E Trans Behind Carbureted 350? - Hot Rod Magazine

Mel Lewis in Adrian, Michigan Asks... What’s Needed to Install a 700-R4 or 4L60E Trans Behind Carbureted 350? Click here for more details or check out the December 2012 issue of Hot Rod Magazine.

www.hotrod.com

Click on above and read it. Especially the info about 4L60E Trannys.

 

Thanks for the fast reply '48 Austin! I read the article three times just to be sure
I'm on a limited budget which is the reason I'm trying to DIY the 4L60E wiring.
If I find that it is impossible to rewire the Force Motor I will find a 4L60 or a TH700R4 and rebuild it, rather than invest $600-$1,000 in a stand-alone controller/TPI/Etc., plus a rebuild kit into a "E" transmission.
I will post results here whichever route I choose...maybe it will help other members who are doing "E" transmission swaps.
Thanks again, doorgunner

 

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Click on above. TCI Controller for a lot less than $1000.

 

Thanks '48 Austin. I added it to my Watch List.
doorgunner

 

Ive used the Fitech Go-Shift twice now. super easy and worked great

 

Thanks...I will check it out and add it to my list.

 

You're much better off just getting a 700R4.

Besides the controller, you'll need a Throttle Position Sensor, and then you have no speedo, so you're looking at another $300+ to make your speedo work.
So now you are up to $1000 extra...
For something that you're just making 1/4 mile runs, I could see doing the mod harness/switches thing.
But for a street cruiser, it would be a pain in the ass... and you won't have a speedo... unless you at least spend the cash on a speedo converter.

I have a 4L60e, and I bought a U.S. Shift Quick 4 controller (585)... and harness (140)... and TPS (175)... and a speedo converter (300).
I love the way it works, the programmability and features etc.... but I cringe every time I think of the cost.

If you're on a tight budget, I'd seriously try to find a 700 at a reasonable price.

 

Thanks...You Members are giving me good advice from all angles. I was hoping to discover a way to DIY the Force Motor on the 4L60E without "taking out a loan". Installing a different solenoid-Valve would be an option in order to eliminate the Force Motor.
Also, I was trying to avoid the TH700R4 because they have been picked thru for the most part. Next would be the 4L60 Base transmission/no need for $$$$ add-ons.

Basically, I'm stuffing the piggy bank to finish the quality paint job on the front clip.

I'll update as I settle on a direction/choice of transmission.

 

Pick over, what do you mean ? There are tons of 700R4 builders and suppliers out there.

There is no means (at least no simple means) of modulating the 4L60E without a controller device. People that build these and 4L80E’s for manual shifting live with max pressure shifts when using them without a controller.

When the 4L60E in my truck died I put a 700R4 behind the 350 and put a carburetor on top of the 350 and ripped the computer and all the ugly wiring out.

Bogie

 

Picked over refers to salvage yards, as the budget doesn't allow for purchase of a rebuild when I can do it myself for the cost of a rebuild kit. I'm with you on the TH700R4 / I put one in my '34 street truck / worked perfectly 3rd + O.D. /4th + O.D. I'm working on a 0 to 1.5 amp regulator to wire into the Force Motor power wire to avoid constant full line pressure..if it doesn't function properly the 4L60 (non-E) would be my next choice...then the TH700R4.
Thanks for the info...it won't go to waste!

 

Yeah U.S. Shift does charge alot for the Edelbrock TPS.
Their Holley TPS is $100.

I don't think I paid quite that much a few years ago, but that's the current prices.

 

4L60 no E is a renamed 700R4. But there are many internal differences over the production years. The 1987 and up are considered the best builders.

The 4L60E suffers through a lot of production changes as it creeps through the years as well. The 1995 being considered an oddball year.

They all share many common structural strength problems and heating issues in performance use.

I think your idea on controlling the modulator has merit but many of these solenoids are Pulse Width Modulated rather than using variable power regulation. I just don’t recall which this uses. I’ll have to dig through my notes.


Bogie

 

Thanks Bogie. I can try to make a voltage regulator/potentiometer for the low amp low voltage Force Motor Solenoid OR find a replacement Solenoid/Valve combo that will operate off 12volts much like the
TH700R4/4L60 transmission.
I don’t mind feeling the torque converter locking. If you have notes related to the above modifications that would be great.
doorgunner

 

The 700R4/4L60 is mechanically controlled, that starts at the push/pull cable that attaches to the EFI or carburetor throttle bell crank and extends to a bolted connection on the right, outside case casting. The push/pull cable inside hooks to a mechanical valve. This controls pressure modulation and forced kick down shifts.

The electrical connections on these transmissions is for all of them the converter lockup, the factory uses vacuum switches and a brake application override that allows lockup in second through fourth gears. The vacuum switch prevents lockup at low vacuum typical of open throttle as the converter clutch is not sufficiently strong to carry maximum power transfer. The other wires, if present, would be for electric speedometers that came into use on different models in the late 1980’s early 1990’s. These are a twisted pair, usually green. The 700R4/4L60 can be dressed for an electrical or conventional mechanical speedometer. The 4L60E can be converted to mechanical but is a lot of work, it can also use an external electrical to mechanical converter


The 4L60E moves these functions as well as normal shift sequencing under electrical control commanded by the computer. The computers vary across years and models moving from discretely managed functions with individual chips and in some cases separate modules for engine, transmission, and housekeeping to integrating these functions as life moved from early OBD-I to the ever advancing OBD-II which feeds into various lines in the early, mirish 1990’s to full commitment by 96.

The 4L60E has many of the same physical strength problems of the 700R4/4L60, most of these get fixed across time to the present but basically any of these short of 2001 or so need aftermarket parts to beef them up for performance or heavy duty use.

GM working in odd ways put fixes and improvements on low production, low profit margin Corvettes first and high production, high profit trucks that really needed these fixes last; go figure?

Bogie

 

The 4L60E has many of the same physical strength problems of the 700R4/4L60, most of these get fixed across time to the present but basically any of these short of 2001 or so need aftermarket parts to beef them up for performance or heavy duty use.

Fortunately he doesn't have too much HP, so clutch upgrade and other minor "fixes" should be all that's required.

 

I wasn't criticizing your HP, I was just saying that just HD clutches should be all you need.
There are some other "fixes" that should be done as well, regardless of HP.
There's a shop manual that covers the "updates".

 

Thanks Bogie. I can try to make a voltage regulator/potentiometer for the low amp low voltage Force Motor Solenoid OR find a replacement Solenoid/Valve combo that will operate off 12volts much like the
TH700R4/4L60 transmission.
I don’t mind feeling the torque converter locking. If you have notes related to the above modifications that would be great.
doorgunner

Trans go makes a kit to eliminate the EPC.You remove the solenoid and replace it with a sleeve,valve, pin and a modulator.Drill Hole thru the case and connect to engine vacuum.It now controls pressure according to vacuum like the older transmissions.They also give you a resistor to connect to the EPC connector,that you only need if you are using a computer.

 

3w Coupe....I'm waiting on an email reply from TransGo for a list of
parts I will need if I go that route.

 

 

I am not a fan of the 60. Nothing nice to say about it even with 300hp.

Have you considered a th350 or 400. Sure you loose overdrive. But in what sounds like a cruiser a bit higher rear axle ratio will allow for a simple direct transmission to be used and if you do decide to add a bit more power everything is still basic.

 

My car has a th400 in it now but the 50 year old engine turns 3000 rpm at 60 mph. I want a highway transmission that will drop the rpm down to 2200 or less any get good mpg. Im easy on transmissions and put 220,000 miles on my 700R4 in my street rod I have plenty of options with transmissions. I tend to like the gear ratios in the 700R4 & the 4L60/4L60E. Also 300 hp is all I need to stay out of trouble.
Thanks for replying.

 

I set up 700R4/4L60 trannies with a simple pressure makes on switch that replaces the end plug in the 4th gear pressure apply passage that terminates on right side of the case. It makes live very simple if the load on the trans allows 4th gear you get lock up with it, if the load on the tranny disallows 4th you dont get lock up. I run a master switch on that circuit so if the pressure switch fails ON I can override the lock up.

The only reason GM allowed lockup in the lower gears of 2 and 3 was to improve MPG during EPA city mileage tests, in the real world there is no use for this. The wear and tear on the clutching circuit components exceeds any fuel savings cost when you find the need to fix this gadget.

Bogie

 

B....I'm on my laptop now...I don't know if you received my reply from my fried IPad.
Thanks for the pressure switch info. Is this a "pressure activated electric switch" that you screw i nto the right side of the case? (I'm a little slow-so I ask questions).
I had lock-up in 2 thru 4 on my street truck 700R4...I removed lockup in 2nd gear (as you said-fancy, but useless) but I kept it in 3rd gear for cruising around town below 50mph. and in 4th gear for highway driving.
I used a adjustable vacuum switch set at 60 mph for 4th gear lockup, along with a push-button ON-OFF switch for 4th gear lockup (similar to the GM pushbutton).
BUT...I'm going to use the info you guys give me to set up the transmission I decide on for the '68 Corvette.

 

UPDATE:
I'm back after watching about 30 More youtube videos concerning the 4L60Electronic transmission. My rookie opinion is the 4L60E has been over-engineered to please the new generation of vehicle owners "who don't want to feel a thing when the transmission shifts". That's fine, but I don't fit in that category. Those of you who are having your 4L60E and 4l80E transmissions rebuilt to make them stronger seem to be doing the right thing by eliminating the "wimpy/weak" parts in the "E" transmissions. There seems to ne too many "built-in flaws" in the 4L60E PWM transmissions.

I will be concentrating on the later-year1988-1992 TH700R4/4l60 O.D. with Locking Torque Converter including the 4L60 Base Transmission. Even though 1988 thru 1992 versions could be considered "Dinosaurs" because of their age, they seem to offer much more in reliability and upgrades as you gius have pointed out.

I will post my future progress for anyone interested..

 

I'm checking in to let everyone know I appreciate ALL the info and advice. Emergency spine surgery has postponed any heavy lifting but I will still try to buy a 1989 thru 1992 A/T...preferrably the Overdrive version (non-"E" /non-PWM) to be used on 1,000-2,000 mile roadtrips in the '68 Corvette once I am released from the Dr.'s care.

 

UPDATE! My friend bought one of those built 700 h.p. 4L80E trans to replace his 4L60E in his truck. They offered him $100 for his 4L60E. He decided to give it to me in exchange for a boiled Crab/Crawfish dinner (we like our food down in Louisiana). So....I will buy a box of relays /resistors/whatever it takes to have a functioning automatic. Pics as I start the rebuild.

 

Update: My new-to-me 4L60E needs a few parts to get it 100% again. Front seal/rear seal/shifter shaft seal/piston seals/etc.
....a new separator plate ( 3 of the steel check balls have nearly hammered their way thru the plate)
....a new/wider Intermediate band
(.....all the steel parts / gears / bushings look/feel new)
.....a new 1600-1800 stall torque converter

I will need an adapter to connect a TH700R4 Tailshaft housing to the 4L60E case.....
......add a plastic speedometer Drive gear to the output shaft
......add a speedometer gear assembly with plastic Driven gear in order to keep my cable-driven speedometer
......add a transmission in-line cooler with built-in 180* thermostat

Fabricate a simple test-stand to make sure the trans shifts correctly before installing it (it will shift sooner because there will be NO load on the output shaft sliding yoke)
I will work out the details on a shift controller---either DIY or basic aftermarket type.

That;s it for now

 

 

You'll need the output shaft with the hole for the speedo gear retainer.
I've done it without it, but not easy.

 

Being a machinist I will modify the 4L60E output shaft to accept a speedo drive gear even if I have to machine the shaft or machine a sleeve for the speedo gear to fit onto the shaft.

That is an LS style trans that uses the 300 mm converter.Before spending money on your rebuild do some research to make sure that that trans can be used on an early small block.The 1pc case trans were a bolt in,not sure about the one you have.

Thanks for keeping me posted on problems I may have to work out.
You know how the internet is...for every "Yes it will work"---there is a ---"No it won't work".
According to the videos I may have to drill/tap an extra hole or two in the mating surface on the engine...
or even fabricate an engine-to- transmission adapter...but that's part of the "fun".

 

That is an LS style trans that uses the 300 mm converter.Before spending money on your rebuild do some research to make sure that that trans can be used on an early small block.The 1pc case trans were a bolt in,not sure about the one you have.

 

That looks good to me....annnnd it works. What is the length of the tail housing?
I need to get one.

 

I have a CAD file if you want it.

I will get sizes and post some pics tonite when I go home.

 

Whoops, read that wrong.
I'll measure the tail housing later.

 

Tail housing is 7-1/4"

 

You are a gentleman & a scholar! I'll keep you guys updated.

 

None of the local auto recyclers will sell parts off their complete transmissions except Pull-
a-Part.....and they recently scrapped all their older vehicles/what is left on the lot already has the tailshaft housings or entire transmissions removed.
So...I have the correct housing ordered...it should be here Monday. Then I can fabricate an adapter using the print that 123pugsy posted along with the bolt hole pattern from the speedo housing, but I will do some additional machine work.

 

If you have CAD program, I can email the file.
Send a PM if you want it.

 

I began machining a blank to mate with the case of the 4L60E transmission.