Every small block and other engines I`ve fooled with, Never needed shims. My father used to have a Buick Century with one, I removed it after I did a basic fix on it and had no problems. The grinding means the starter is moving.
After going through a years worth of starter problems on my small block, I looked into it closer and solved it`s problems. First off, you must use the correct bolts that have a knurled section and have shouldered heads, there cannot be anykind of washers on the bolts. The shouldered section of the bolt fits into 2 machined slots in the starter for the shoulders, this holds the starter in place, make sure the machined holes and the shoulders on the bolts are spotlessly clean. reinstall the starter with no shims, snug the bolts good and make sure the shouldered section of the bolts are in the machined sections of the starter, use a 1/2 drive rachet and put the whammy on the bolts, tighten them good, this will assure the starter doesn`t move. And lastly you can add a starter brace to the rear of the starter, this should be easy to find at a local junk yard. In most cases I found they didn`t need a brace when installed in the manner I just mentioned.

 

doublevision,

I have the correct knurled and shoulder head bolts, and have a brace on the starter. If i do not shim the starter , it makes a REALLY bad grinding sound. If i get the pinon to flywheel clearence without shims, the starter teeth barely engage the flywheel teeth. Thanks for the help though.

 

are flywheel teeth in good shape all around flywheel,, how bout a good ground strap

 

yeah, the flywheel teeth are in good shape, and i have a good ground from the engine to the frame. I read something on the starter instructions just now that said a battery with a charge lower than 9 volts will not operate the starter correctly. My starter was lower than 9 volts so i think that is what is going on. Im going to put the trickle charger on it overnight and see what happens with a full charge.

 

Low battery will cause the starter to turn slow, not grind.
Grinding indicates as I already said the starter is moving.
Adding grounds is always a good idea, I got 5 grounds total to my system and it made a big difference. With the starter on without shims and such a shallow engaugement depth sounds like something isn`t right, what size flywheel are you using? does the starter have a straight across or a staggerd bolt pattern?

 

Check to see if your flywheel is in good shape, and not warped, cracked, or torn teeth.
Also what trannsmission do you have, and what torque converter is in it? this may sound kinda dumb but Ive had a very similar experience to yours that was the transmission and torque converter. It was a mistake that I made and that anyone getting into the hotrodding hobby could make to. :smash:


Brad

 

The flywheel is brand new, i put it on a few weeks ago. Ive spun the engine over and looked at the flywheel all around, and it does not seem warped or anything like that. When i first got the starter shimmed in, i started well, but after starting it and the battery getting low , it started to grind. Maybe ill try shimming it in closer to the flywheel some more, maybe it isnt close enough.

 

btw i bought the starter from advance auto parts.....its called a pallandium or something, its kind of a cheapy starter.....ive always had problems with it from day one, but im kind of short on cash right now and am trying to get it to work, so any help is greatly appreicated as always :thumbup:

 

I just went through a similar situation with my starter, except I broke the nose cone. Anyway, the instructions that came with my original starter had shims & a 1/8" gauge rod included. You need 1/8" between the flywheel and starter shaft. Shim it accordingly, and it should be fine. No need to pull the starter gear out etc, just gauge to the 1/8". Also, make sure that you installed the flywheel the right way. The converter bosses should be facing the converter.

 

Yeah the flywheel is installed the way you stated.....ill just try shimming it closer then, hopefully that will work, this has been a pain in my butt for a while.

 

btw i bought the starter from advance auto parts.....its called a pallandium or something, its kind of a cheapy starter.....ive always had problems with it from day one, but im kind of short on cash right now and am trying to get it to work, so any help is greatly appreicated as always :thumbup:

i hate to say it but it may just be the starter. i have had problems with different suppliers and companys @ autozone, vip, motorsupply. try the better starter or a different supplier. i like napa for parts, and never had any trouble with there parts, unless i get the wrong part to begin with, i have had even napa give me the wrong part.

 

Years ago I had a Nova and it would eat up starters {and eventually a flexplate}, I couldn't fix it with or with-out shims. I was totally stumped and had my dad look at it.
Now this probably isn't your problem and out of thousands of SBC's I've never seen nor heard of it again. He pulled the starter after a good look and machined the starter mounting pad that fits fulsh with the block about a 1/8"! It fixed the problem, and it never returned! It's a long shot, but worth a look! Shimming pulls the starter away from the flexplate.

 

First of all, shimming one side is a no-no. Second , shimming of any kind moves the gear farther from big ring gear. I went thru this issue with an Auto Zone starter a couple of years ago and after some careful measurements, it was determined the starter mounting block was manufactured a tenth of an inch too thick. We were only able to mill off about 50 thousands, which helped, but was still unreliable. I returned the starter and got my money back and ordered a Powermaster that took care of the problem. Unfortunately, the over seas manufacturing do not have the quality control that we have been accustomed to and the suits that work the contracts don't realize the difference, thus we deal with the crappy parts. Act soon enough and most parts houses exchange it until you find one that works. Wait too long and you have to bite the dust unless you buy the life time warranty stuff.

By the way, check your bolts. I bet you wil find they are bent slightly.

Trees

 

I thought it was ok to shim one side of the starter. I shimmed the outboard bolt on the starter, and it pulled the gear closer to the flywheel. But it would probably be better to just bite it and buy a good quality starter instead of this POS i have. I've checked the bolts and they are straight actually. Thanks for the help everyone

 

i had the same problem for my sbc. and it was one of those cheap starters. im not sure if you can shim one side only, but i did and mine works now. you really need that little 1/8 " rod that the starter comes with to measure the gap between the starter gear and the flexplate and it should fire up nicely.

 

well if yours works then i can get mine to work damnit!

 

btw thanks everyone for the help, i really appreicate it.

 

If you use a full shim, it will definitely move the starter away from the flywheel. But, if you cut the shim & install it on the bolt on the outside, it will move the shaft closer.

 

yeah, that is what ive done....ive used about 4 shims so far, apparently it needs more....3 of the shims are those thin 1/64" shims though, im going to cut a 1/16" shim that i have in half and use the two halves on the one side and that will probably put me pretty close to where i need to be.

 

If you have to use that many shims, then something else is wrong. I had a problem like that once, One way to fix it for me was to grind a little bitt off of the starter to bring it in closer. It fixed it for about 3 months, until the starter wore out. This was on a stock style starter.


Brad

 

I could try grinding off some of the metal on one side and see how that works, dont have much to lose at this point.

 

The way I did it is kinda redneckish. I would take a file and file a little bit off of the starter and then bolt it back up and see if it was close enough. I did this several times being sure not to take off to much metal.


Brad

 

I think im going to the boneyard tomorrow and getting another starter. The guy said he only wanted 20 bucks for one, and it was off the same year motor as mine. Worth a shot

 

starter problems

I had all sorts of problems like yourself,and did the shimming thing.I also changed more nose cones they I dare count, the only fix for me was to get a starter and fly wheel off a scrap car(matched set) and put it on mine that worked .I have had no problems in a couple of years never really figured out why I had so much trouble.Good luck.

 

thanks all for your help, i really appreciate it. I think ill be ok getting a starter from the junkyard. I figure if it worked on the junked vehicle, it will work well on mine *crosses fingers*.