Get comfortable and read this.

BillaVista.com-Engine Oiling Tech Article by BillaVista

 

Get comfortable and read this.

BillaVista.com-Engine Oiling Tech Article by BillaVista

I‘m sorry but all I was asking for was a simple answer . Not a dissertation on the properties of oil and everything else on the site.

 

He has two posts and half of them are snarky

You need the oily kind of oil. The slippery stuff. The user manual would tell you. Even if you don't have it, it's available online. For the most part, flat tappet cam failure is not nearly as common as you think. I built dozens of flat-tappet engines. Proper break-in lube on the lobes and lifter faces, 20 minutes fast idle, then just regular oil. No high-zinc, not synthetic, sometimes not even a brand name. Whatever is on sale.... Pennzoil, Castrol, Valvoline, whatever. This may be different based on your climate, but I think they call for 5w30.

 

Flat tappet cams need pretty high levels of ZZDP especially at break in. Your best survival tactic is break in oil like Brad Penn breakin oil, Joe Gibbs Driven etc.

Pumping oil full of ZDDP additive does not insure proper break-in of the flat tappet cam and lifters. There is a balance between detergents and Extreme Pressure lube like ZDDP which is commonly referred to as zinc. Typically break-in oils back down on detergents while bring the ZDDP up to Bout 1800 parts per million (PPM). The detergents are backed down as they interfere with the ZDDP building a protective layer or maybe impregnating the surface pores is a better way of thinking about it. Too much ZDDP tends to prevent good surface penetration, so you can have too much of a good thing. Which brings us back to professional concoctions that are tested to establish the requisite surface penetration of lobe and lifter contact surfaces.

In the long haul you want to maintain using oils meant for flat tappet cams. Modern oils have very high on detergents and will strip the EP coating while lacking sufficient quantity of EP to replace it. This being a cyclical cycle of the coating being stripped by the detergents and scuffing contact while being replaced with fresh infusion from the supply in the oil all the while subject to failure by too much availability in the oil that usually comes from freely loading additive concentration without lab analysis of the amount in the oil. So all of this is like walking a narrow curb after a few drinks for the local cops. You can’t afford a slip up and that’s easy to stumble into.

As far as weight goes that is relatively immaterial compared to selecting oils composed for flat tappet cam engines. Do bear in mind that the Chevy geared oil pump predates these modern viscosities or 0W or 5W somethings, (note the very different oil pump of the Gen III and up Chevy recommended nothing thinner than 10W 30. A straight weight 30 is fine if you’re avoiding cold weather use.

Bogie

 

Flat tappet cams need pretty high levels of ZZDP especially at break in. Your best survival tactic is break in oil like Brad Penn breakin oil, Joe Gibbs Driven etc.

Pumping oil full of ZDDP additive does not insure proper break-in of the flat tappet cam and lifters. There is a balance between detergents and Extreme Pressure lube like ZDDP which is commonly referred to as zinc. Typically break-in oils back down on detergents while bring the ZDDP up to Bout 1800 parts per million (PPM). The detergents are backed down as they interfere with the ZDDP building a protective layer or maybe impregnating the surface pores is a better way of thinking about it. Too much ZDDP tends to prevent good surface penetration, so you can have too much of a good thing. Which brings us back to professional concoctions that are tested to establish the requisite surface penetration of lobe and lifter contact surfaces.

In the long haul you want to maintain using oils meant for flat tappet cams. Modern oils have very high on detergents and will strip the EP coating while lacking sufficient quantity of EP to replace it. This being a cyclical cycle of the coating being stripped by the detergents and scuffing contact while being replaced with fresh infusion from the supply in the oil all the while subject to failure by too much availability in the oil that usually comes from freely loading additive concentration without lab analysis of the amount in the oil. So all of this is like walking a narrow curb after a few drinks for the local cops. You can’t afford a slip up and that’s easy to stumble into.

As far as weight goes that is relatively immaterial compared to selecting oils composed for flat tappet cam engines. Do bear in mind that the Chevy geared oil pump predates these modern viscosities or 0W or 5W somethings, (note the very different oil pump of the Gen III and up Chevy recommended nothing thinner than 10W 30. A straight weight 30 is fine if you’re avoiding cold weather use.

Bogie

 

Nothing is simple now days , But then I should have some idea of that anyhow.
I install high eff Boilers and what you have to know and what you have to do , is light years away from the old school stuff I grew up learning on.
So all this information on the oil and what it does etc. Is very technical for a guy who is 73 yrs old and not been around this stuff for upteen years. I can only compare it to explain the workings of a Hi Eff boiler , latent heat , ratio turn down, etc,etc. I know this stuff but all this with oil is foreign to a guy that changed oil at a garage when I was 17 , 56 yrs ago.

Thank you

 

I hear ya.

Bogie

 

I have a 350/330 h.p cate engine from summit. It is a flat tappet cam . There are no clear instructions for the oil I should use .
I am sure I need a zinc based oil after the break in period. I actually ask this question on the Summit page and I got the answer. Regular oil ?
correct me here if I am wrong. But I am thinking. A zinc based oil straight weight like 30 or 40 . I do not need a multi weight as it’s not driven in the winter and it’s in a heated garage durning cold weather.

What say you all
[/QUOTE

 

I also have a crate 350 and after a proper break-in, I switched to Valvoline VR1, which is a racing oil with a high zinc content. I use 20w-50, but it also comes in 10-30 and straight 30.

 

I just use Rotella t5 10-30w for my flat tappet SBC's cant go wrong with Diesel oil , never had a issue.

 

BP or VR 10/30 and send it.

 

EPA mandates limit zinc and phosphorus which is bad for flat tappet cams. I would not run anything but high ZDDP stuff, Lucus makes some classic car oil you can order off Amazon.

 

Mobile One sells a high zinc 15w50 oil for performance cars and you can usually find it at most parts stores (Autozone, etc). It’s relatively inexpensive since it goes on sale along with the rest of the Mobile One products.

I used it because it met the phosphorous/Zinc (1200/1300) needs of a flat tappet engine, was easy to find, and the price was reasonable. I even found it at Walmart in large jugs once or twice (quite a bit cheaper), but they didn’t always stock it.

 

If it’s a flat tappet engine then you need to go the proper break in route with organic zinc phosphate oils. To do otherwise risks the cam and lifters. If your a naturally lucky person you might get away with a concoction if not you get to replace the cam and lifters plus clean up the internal mess of metal shavings.

If you send us the part number you bought would be helpful as GM at various times lists different cams referenced as flat tappet and roller being in these engines. The crate engines were stable configurations for many years but recently what’s available has been changing part numbers and content, several versions are just gone from the line up, it gets confusing along with the private builders and rebuilders out their with their offerings so anymore having part numbers is really helpful info.

Bogie

 

If it’s a flat tappet engine then you need to go the proper break in route with organic zinc phosphate oils. To do otherwise risks the cam and lifters. If your a naturally lucky person you might get away with a concoction if not you get to replace the cam and lifters plus clean up the internal mess of metal shavings.

If you send us the part number you bought would be helpful as GM at various times lists different cams referenced as flat tappet and roller being in these engines. The crate engines were stable configurations for many years but recently what’s available has been changing part numbers and content, several versions are just gone from the line up, it gets confusing along with the private builders and rebuilders out their with their offerings so anymore having part numbers is really helpful info.

Bogie

Thank you, with what you just told me . That would make sense. Nothing in the start up instruction talk anything about special oil. Though I use proper break in oil , there instruction called for regular 10-30 sae oil.for break in . Then the same oil after oil change . So something doesn’t jive with what should be .

 

use a API SG or SH rated oil.
Some oil for old flat tappet engines is not API rated, I use the Penngrade oils and they don't get them rated. Do not use a SM or SN rated oil.

 

Part 12487544 is the complete ready to run (Turn Key) engine kit. The long block is part 19210008 which is a flat hydraulic tappet cam with Vortec Head’s and one piece rear main seal. If you’re running an automatic this is ready to go with a flexplate that fits this crankshaft, if you’re running a stick you will need to obtain a flywheel that fits this crankshaft. Cam 24502476 is a crate only mild street performance cam, hydraulic flat tappet. The lifter 5232720 is an ordinary production lifter.

This cam uses a long ramp it’s hard to find in literature about its zero to zero lift some years ago I measured this on the bench using Vee blocks roughly 292/300 at starting lift of about .004 to .006 inch with 212/225 degrees at .050 inch. The lobe height is on average .290 intake and .300 exhaust which lifts the advertised.435/.460 at the valve lift using a 1.5 rocker. Long ramps being a way GM eases the lift rate to prolong cam and lifter life.

All said my preference is to use a break in specific oil with a 2000 RPM 20 to 30 minute continuous run. The “at risk” is early lobe and lifter wipe out. This is not usual but it also is not unheard of. Failure requires a lot of work as the pan has to be dropped, front of the engine has to come off down to and including the timing cover, the intake has to come off. We’re not even at considering whether or how to flush the chips out of the engine but this above would be a typical do it yourself or shop warrantee repair. Add in lost time and inconvenience. The old saw of “pay me now or pay me later”. One needs to consider that factory manuals are written by the experience of expert engineers and technicians with the infrastructure and knowledge of a huge corporation behind them. I should imagine that these people seldom arrive at an engine with a miss timed distributor, coolant or oil leaks that force a lot of cranking and fiddling to get it started or have to shut downs if it does start then some OSIF (Oh “poop” I forgot) happens.

I’m not telling you what you should do but I try to minimize my comebacks so I do things the hard way.

Bogie

 

Part 12487544 is the complete ready to run (Turn Key) engine kit. The long block is part 19210008 which is a flat hydraulic tappet cam with Vortec Head’s and one piece rear main seal. If you’re running an automatic this is ready to go with a flexplate that fits this crankshaft, if you’re running a stick you will need to obtain a flywheel that fits this crankshaft. Cam 24502476 is a crate only mild street performance cam, hydraulic flat tappet. The lifter 5232720 is an ordinary production lifter.

This cam uses a long ramp it’s hard to find in literature about its zero to zero lift some years ago I measured this on the bench using Vee blocks roughly 292/300 at starting lift of about .004 to .006 inch with 212/225 degrees at .050 inch. The lobe height is on average .290 intake and .300 exhaust which lifts the advertised.435/.460 at the valve lift using a 1.5 rocker. Long ramps being a way GM eases the lift rate to prolong cam and lifter life.

All said my preference is to use a break in specific oil with a 2000 RPM 20 to 30 minute continuous run. The “at risk” is early lobe and lifter wipe out. This is not usual but it also is not unheard of. Failure requires a lot of work as the pan has to be dropped, front of the engine has to come off down to and including the timing cover, the intake has to come off. We’re not even at considering whether or how to flush the chips out of the engine but this above would be a typical do it yourself or shop warrantee repair. Add in lost time and inconvenience. The old saw of “pay me now or pay me later”. One needs to consider that factory manuals are written by the experience of expert engineers and technicians with the infrastructure and knowledge of a huge corporation behind them. I should imagine that these people seldom arrive at an engine with a miss timed distributor, coolant or oil leaks that force a lot of cranking and fiddling to get it started or have to shut downs if it does start then some OSIF (Oh “poop” I forgot) happens.

I’m not telling you what you should do but I try to minimize my comebacks so I do things the hard way.

Bogie

Thank you, so I have come to the conclusion this engine needs a zinc-based oil like the Valvoline racing oil I use in my 69 Mach 1. I am going with their 30 weight, as my Truck won’t see cold weather, at least not enough to require 10-30

 

Some interesting data I tripped into.

Oil ZDDP List

Please note that the information here came from the http://www.sccoa.com forums ad was compiled in 2015 and reposted from a now dead site by 20psiofevil. SO, that said, do your OWN research. Data...

www.autorestomod.com

Bogie

 

I've had great success with VR1 10w30. YMMV.

 

I have a 350/330 h.p cate engine from summit. It is a flat tappet cam . There are no clear instructions for the oil I should use .
I am sure I need a zinc based oil after the break in period. I actually ask this question on the Summit page and I got the answer. Regular oil ?
correct me here if I am wrong. But I am thinking. A zinc based oil straight weight like 30 or 40 . I do not need a multi weight as it’s not driven in the winter and it’s in a heated garage durning cold weather.

What say you all

I would make sure you put some zinc addative in what you run for oil alot new engines have zero clearance on bearings

 

i'm not saying you SHOULD use this oil, i'm just saying this is what oil i used and WHY i used it when i had my crate 350 (the basic # 19420194) and my 305, both flat lifters.

10W30 Motor Oil

All-weather viscosity grade for passenger cars and light trucks

www.redlineoil.com

i used this because it met the ZDDP levels for flat tappet cams and i wanted to be safe about it. The price difference between this oil and "conventional" or synthetic oils that DID NOT meet the ZDDP levels was so small that i figured this was cheap insurance. The price difference might have been $15-$20 per oil change? Not much.

Now, do flat lifter engines actually NEED ZDDP? Some say if running stock-ish valve spring rates, then no, you DO NOT need zddp. Some say you absolutely need the higher ZDDP levels irregardless what your valve springs pressures are. Once again, i figured using high ZDDP oil would be cheap insurance.

i changed my oil every 10,000 miles, which looking back probably wasn't the best move. i now change at every 5,000.

i now only run roller lifters, but still run MobilOne synthetic 10W-30 and mobil filter even though i don't have to be as picky about oil due to the rollers.

BTW, i am NOT an engine person; i don't have a problem paying someone else to build my engine and in fact prefer it.

 

I have a 350/330 h.p cate engine from summit. It is a flat tappet cam . There are no clear instructions for the oil I should use .
I am sure I need a zinc based oil after the break in period. I actually ask this question on the Summit page and I got the answer. Regular oil ?
correct me here if I am wrong. But I am thinking. A zinc based oil straight weight like 30 or 40 . I do not need a multi weight as it’s not driven in the winter and it’s in a heated garage during cold weather.

What say you all

Mine is flat tappet. My engine builder told me to run Valvoline VR1. Had me run my motor for 20 minutes holding 2000 rpm and checking temp and for coolant leaks and the normal first time checks. Then I changed oil and filter plus a
Isky Racing Cams ZDDP

oil treatment. Getting the cam coated in the zink helps prevent wear. Rollers are not as effected so when they decided to remove zink from oil they did not think of us poor people trying to get by nor did they care. It evidently plugs up catalytic converter. Like any of us want them either. But I mean if you have to choose between a exhaust part that robs HP or the engine cam? They picked for you.

Also he told me after the first change to put 1000 miles on it before the next and I was good to run just the VR1 alone.

Sorry for the bold text not really trying to advertise but I could not remember the name so I did a cut and paste. Also the guy that built mine claims he builds 30 to 40 a day. All GM

 

Lucas makes a good oil especially for these flat tappet engines, also many "non -automotive" application (ATV & motorcycle) oils are good candidates since many of them are non-roller cams.

 

I suggest using this initially.

 

I use Valvoline VR1 10-30 in my 350 with a solid flat tappet cam. Haven't had any issues for 4 years. Just don't buy the little bottles of zinc additive and add it to regular oil. It can reduce an oils film strength by as much as half. Get an oil that already has high zinc content and your good.